I don’t think that it’s a good idea to give money to a charity in someone else’s name. If you don’t want to give a person a gift, then don’t. But don’t give to a charity and then pretend that’s a gift to someone else. It’s not. Come on, really. What does the person get? They don’t get a gift from you. And you CANNOT give them God’s blessing for heartfelt giving–that’s not yours to give!!! The blessing for giving to those in need comes from God, not from you. So you’re not giving the person *anything* when you play such a game, unless you count the junk mail that they’re likely to get afterwards.
I understand the various selfish reasons why people do such things, including wanting to keep the tax deduction. But don’t pretend that a gift to a charity is really a gift to someone else. That’s just a perverse for of double-counting.
Each person needs to learn to give to charity themselves. Don’t rob them of God’s blessing of giving to others by attempting to give for them. Give them the money, and tell them that you would like for them to pick out a charity and contribute. They get the tax deduction but, more importantly, they get the blessing from carefully considering how they can bless someone who is in need. People need to do that for themselves.
There are so many devious ways to rob people of God’s blessing in giving. This is just one more in the list.
Regarding the previous post: We recently got married, but we really did not want our wedding guests to bring us presents that we didn’t need (as we already struggle to consolidate two existing households). So we asked people to give to our favorite charity (KIVA kiva.org) instead. Whether it was in our name or their name, whether they were worried about getting God’s blessing or not, we figured that some people may ask why we were asking for that, and think about it.
I agree with you that giving someone the gift of giving to a charity that they didn’t select isn’t good, but by the same token I understand Rev. Adam’s sermon to guide me in asking others not to give me material gifts that I don’t need, but rather to ask them to give to those who really need it. I remember being moved to tears when I opened one of our cards after the wedding and read about one person’s donation in our honor. My wife and I traded such vows to be mindful this Christmas season about how much happiness we already have, and not to think too hard about what other material goods we could possibly need. Happiness comes from giving, and I think that it’s great if I know that someone gave to someone in need, rather than giving to me (whereas I would feel possibly guilty and obligated if I received a present).
I really liked Rev. Adam’s message, it is much needed in this time of economic despair brought on by years of senseless spending. We’ve been brainwashed into believing that our society’s health depends on “consumer confidence,” which is derived from how spend-happy we are. It’s time we realized that spending more than we have on things we don’t need brings nothing but unhappiness.
Alot of talk about money and possesions lately. I can imagine the burden wealth can be on a person or institution who knows the dangers of money, but is this the focus of advent? Sometimes it feels like I’m at a ‘feed the world’ conference.
It is also a form of brainwashing to tell people that you should never give to those who have everything when it is a gift given in the right spirit. People who offered great gifts of thanksgiving to Jesus were not treated that way by Jesus.
Jesus is God. What can you give Jesus? One woman took an alabaster jar of perfume worth about a year’s wages and poured the perfume on Jesus’ head. That’s gratitude. And Jesus scolded those who said that the perfume could have been sold and given to the poor. Jesus said, “Leave her alone. Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want.” And Jesus wanted this story to be remembered, too. He said, “I tell you the truth, wherever the gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
It’s brainwashing to claim that a grateful spirit of gratitude should never be encouraged to give, even if it could have gone to help the poor. That’s also wrongheaded. Sometimes you really want to bless those who have done a great deal for you. Not everything has to be about only helping the needy.
If we should give only to the needy, then we should not give to the Church of the Resurrection any more. Instead, I’ll send my donations to help children, and I’ll do it in the name of COR. That will be my gift to COR! That’s not how it works, and concentrating only on the poor and needy is a form of idolatry.
It’s sad when a wealthy Church and wealthy people see fit to rob people of their blessing of grateful, heartfelt giving.
If the Church of the Resurrection wants to rob people of their gift of giving that comes from God, then it will suffer. But if the Church of the Resurrection teaches and encourages a person in a heartfelt, healthy spirit of giving, then it will prosper beyond belief. When it finally repents of calling “offerings” by the name “tithes and offerings,” then it will prosper beyond belief. A spirit of giving will overwhelm COR once people get a taste of that spirit. But rules about giving won’t do it. The law kills, but the Spirit brings life.
Fred, you have posted nine comments in two weeks. Some were quite lengthy and most were disagreeing with something I’ve said in a sermon. Your comments tend to shut down conversation rather than promoting it. And you write as though your view is the only right view. I’m not angry with you – but I do feel you’ve begun to dominate the conversation in what seems an unhealthy way. I’d like to suggest two things if you would like to continue to post on my blog: First, disagree respectfully – I am a reasonably intelligent, fairly well educated, and fumblingly devoted follower of Jesus. Your comments about tithing, baptism or other topics you’ve raised would seem to suggest that you have the truth and I just fell off the turnip truck. Perhaps you might start with an acknowledgement that I or others could be correct. I’d be willing to say the same of you. Mutual respect goes a long way in promoting dialogue and conversation. The second suggestion I would have is to limit your posts to one post each week.
When it comes to tithing, I agree that we don’t live under the requirements of the law. But as you know, tithing predates the law. My wife and I don’t tithe because God will be angry with us if we don’t tithe. Neither do we tithe to earn our salvation or because it is a requirement of the New Covenant. We tithe because there is joy in this. My wife and I find the tithe liberating and a blessing in our lives.
We have tithed since we lived at the poverty level in the early years of our marriage. As our incomes increased we began to try to practice what Wesley practiced – to “earn all you can, save all you can and to give all you can.” We committed to giving an increasing amount of our income away over the course of our lives. This year that will be 23% of our income we will give away. We could not do that when we lived at the poverty level in the early years of our marriage – but we gave 10% then – not because we felt our salvation depended upon it, but because it seemed clear in the Old Testament (which continues to provide a valuable guide to us, though it is not the Covenant we live under today) that this was both pleasing to God and a means of determining an appropriate amount to give. My experience has been one of blessing in tithing that I don’t see in the lives of many who don’t tithe. I don’t tithe to win God’s approval or blessings – but in gratitude for what God has done, and as a way of keeping my head on straight about money.
I don’t intend to delete your comments, but I would invite you to consider adding just one comment after each sermon, and to do so in a way that reflects a respect for others and a willingness to admit that you could be wrong.
In Christ,
Adam Hamilton
P.S. Fred, I tried to reply to your e-mail, but your server rejected my reply.
Sorry, comments for this entry are closed at this time.
7 Comment(s)
Fred | Dec 6, 2009 | Reply
I don’t think that it’s a good idea to give money to a charity in someone else’s name. If you don’t want to give a person a gift, then don’t. But don’t give to a charity and then pretend that’s a gift to someone else. It’s not. Come on, really. What does the person get? They don’t get a gift from you. And you CANNOT give them God’s blessing for heartfelt giving–that’s not yours to give!!! The blessing for giving to those in need comes from God, not from you. So you’re not giving the person *anything* when you play such a game, unless you count the junk mail that they’re likely to get afterwards.
I understand the various selfish reasons why people do such things, including wanting to keep the tax deduction. But don’t pretend that a gift to a charity is really a gift to someone else. That’s just a perverse for of double-counting.
Each person needs to learn to give to charity themselves. Don’t rob them of God’s blessing of giving to others by attempting to give for them. Give them the money, and tell them that you would like for them to pick out a charity and contribute. They get the tax deduction but, more importantly, they get the blessing from carefully considering how they can bless someone who is in need. People need to do that for themselves.
There are so many devious ways to rob people of God’s blessing in giving. This is just one more in the list.
Slawik Pech | Dec 6, 2009 | Reply
Regarding the previous post: We recently got married, but we really did not want our wedding guests to bring us presents that we didn’t need (as we already struggle to consolidate two existing households). So we asked people to give to our favorite charity (KIVA kiva.org) instead. Whether it was in our name or their name, whether they were worried about getting God’s blessing or not, we figured that some people may ask why we were asking for that, and think about it.
I agree with you that giving someone the gift of giving to a charity that they didn’t select isn’t good, but by the same token I understand Rev. Adam’s sermon to guide me in asking others not to give me material gifts that I don’t need, but rather to ask them to give to those who really need it. I remember being moved to tears when I opened one of our cards after the wedding and read about one person’s donation in our honor. My wife and I traded such vows to be mindful this Christmas season about how much happiness we already have, and not to think too hard about what other material goods we could possibly need. Happiness comes from giving, and I think that it’s great if I know that someone gave to someone in need, rather than giving to me (whereas I would feel possibly guilty and obligated if I received a present).
I really liked Rev. Adam’s message, it is much needed in this time of economic despair brought on by years of senseless spending. We’ve been brainwashed into believing that our society’s health depends on “consumer confidence,” which is derived from how spend-happy we are. It’s time we realized that spending more than we have on things we don’t need brings nothing but unhappiness.
Keith | Dec 7, 2009 | Reply
Alot of talk about money and possesions lately. I can imagine the burden wealth can be on a person or institution who knows the dangers of money, but is this the focus of advent? Sometimes it feels like I’m at a ‘feed the world’ conference.
Fred | Dec 7, 2009 | Reply
It is also a form of brainwashing to tell people that you should never give to those who have everything when it is a gift given in the right spirit. People who offered great gifts of thanksgiving to Jesus were not treated that way by Jesus.
Jesus is God. What can you give Jesus? One woman took an alabaster jar of perfume worth about a year’s wages and poured the perfume on Jesus’ head. That’s gratitude. And Jesus scolded those who said that the perfume could have been sold and given to the poor. Jesus said, “Leave her alone. Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want.” And Jesus wanted this story to be remembered, too. He said, “I tell you the truth, wherever the gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”
It’s brainwashing to claim that a grateful spirit of gratitude should never be encouraged to give, even if it could have gone to help the poor. That’s also wrongheaded. Sometimes you really want to bless those who have done a great deal for you. Not everything has to be about only helping the needy.
If we should give only to the needy, then we should not give to the Church of the Resurrection any more. Instead, I’ll send my donations to help children, and I’ll do it in the name of COR. That will be my gift to COR! That’s not how it works, and concentrating only on the poor and needy is a form of idolatry.
Fred | Dec 7, 2009 | Reply
It’s sad when a wealthy Church and wealthy people see fit to rob people of their blessing of grateful, heartfelt giving.
If the Church of the Resurrection wants to rob people of their gift of giving that comes from God, then it will suffer. But if the Church of the Resurrection teaches and encourages a person in a heartfelt, healthy spirit of giving, then it will prosper beyond belief. When it finally repents of calling “offerings” by the name “tithes and offerings,” then it will prosper beyond belief. A spirit of giving will overwhelm COR once people get a taste of that spirit. But rules about giving won’t do it. The law kills, but the Spirit brings life.
Bertram Cabot, Jr. | Dec 8, 2009 | Reply
Wow, Fred!
You seem like a very angry guy.
What’s the real problem? (I hope you are not the Fred who is hanging out with the local atheist group like an ex pastor is.)
Are you?
Adam | Dec 9, 2009 | Reply
Fred, you have posted nine comments in two weeks. Some were quite lengthy and most were disagreeing with something I’ve said in a sermon. Your comments tend to shut down conversation rather than promoting it. And you write as though your view is the only right view. I’m not angry with you – but I do feel you’ve begun to dominate the conversation in what seems an unhealthy way. I’d like to suggest two things if you would like to continue to post on my blog: First, disagree respectfully – I am a reasonably intelligent, fairly well educated, and fumblingly devoted follower of Jesus. Your comments about tithing, baptism or other topics you’ve raised would seem to suggest that you have the truth and I just fell off the turnip truck. Perhaps you might start with an acknowledgement that I or others could be correct. I’d be willing to say the same of you. Mutual respect goes a long way in promoting dialogue and conversation. The second suggestion I would have is to limit your posts to one post each week.
When it comes to tithing, I agree that we don’t live under the requirements of the law. But as you know, tithing predates the law. My wife and I don’t tithe because God will be angry with us if we don’t tithe. Neither do we tithe to earn our salvation or because it is a requirement of the New Covenant. We tithe because there is joy in this. My wife and I find the tithe liberating and a blessing in our lives.
We have tithed since we lived at the poverty level in the early years of our marriage. As our incomes increased we began to try to practice what Wesley practiced – to “earn all you can, save all you can and to give all you can.” We committed to giving an increasing amount of our income away over the course of our lives. This year that will be 23% of our income we will give away. We could not do that when we lived at the poverty level in the early years of our marriage – but we gave 10% then – not because we felt our salvation depended upon it, but because it seemed clear in the Old Testament (which continues to provide a valuable guide to us, though it is not the Covenant we live under today) that this was both pleasing to God and a means of determining an appropriate amount to give. My experience has been one of blessing in tithing that I don’t see in the lives of many who don’t tithe. I don’t tithe to win God’s approval or blessings – but in gratitude for what God has done, and as a way of keeping my head on straight about money.
I don’t intend to delete your comments, but I would invite you to consider adding just one comment after each sermon, and to do so in a way that reflects a respect for others and a willingness to admit that you could be wrong.
In Christ,
Adam Hamilton
P.S. Fred, I tried to reply to your e-mail, but your server rejected my reply.