Comments on: A Christian Community http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/11/02/a-christian-community/ Faith, Morality, and Politics in a Black and White World Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:44:55 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Roger Eberhart http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/11/02/a-christian-community/comment-page-1/#comment-1036 Roger Eberhart Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:03:28 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/11/02/a-christian-community/#comment-1036 The "Re-Think Church" sermon series reminded me of what Frederick Buechner said in his book "Telling Secrets" about what the church should be like. He equated the church with Alcoholics Anonymous. He said, "I believe the church has an enormous amount to learn from them. I also believe that what goes on in them is far closer to what Christ meant his chuch to be, and what it originally was, than much of what goes on in most churches I know." He went on to say: "They make you wonder if the best thing that could happen to many a church might not be to have its building burn down and to lose all its money. Then all that the people would have left would be God and each other." He further describes the church as "an uncomfortable resemblance to the dysfunctional family" with all the flaws, inward lonliness, unspoken rules and hidden agendas, and the tendency not to rock the boat, but to keep on doing things the same way they have always been done. I think he really comes close to what the chuch should be like by saying: "They are more like families because in them something which is often extraordinarily like truth is spoken in something that is extraordinarily like love." The “Re-Think Church” sermon series reminded me of what Frederick Buechner said in his book “Telling Secrets” about what the church should be like. He equated the church with Alcoholics Anonymous. He said, “I believe the church has an enormous amount to learn from them. I also believe that what goes on in them is far closer to what Christ meant his chuch to be, and what it originally was, than much of what goes on in most churches I know.” He went on to say: “They make you wonder if the best thing that could happen to many a church might not be to have its building burn down and to lose all its money. Then all that the people would have left would be God and each other.” He further describes the church as “an uncomfortable resemblance to the dysfunctional family” with all the flaws, inward lonliness, unspoken rules and hidden agendas, and the tendency not to rock the boat, but to keep on doing things the same way they have always been done. I think he really comes close to what the chuch should be like by saying: “They are more like families because in them something which is often extraordinarily like truth is spoken in something that is extraordinarily like love.”

]]> By: Fred http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/11/02/a-christian-community/comment-page-1/#comment-1035 Fred Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:17:55 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/11/02/a-christian-community/#comment-1035 I think it would be useful for the Methodists to re-examine some erroneous traditions and face up to the truth, starting with Baptism. Infants are not 'saved' or placed in God's family by Baptism. Infants are incapable of knowing good from evil, and they've never left God's family. Infants are already genuine members of God's family ... they are the innocent. Innocent of sin. Innocent of murder against Jesus Christ. Infant Baptism, though a cute ceremoney, is not for the children. It's for the adults and their commitments. It has no meaning as a deferred 'decision' of the infant. Nobody can make a decision to choose God for the child, and then have them grow into it. Nor would God leave the eternal fate of a child up to adults. This is hangover from the drunkenness of Catholic influence. If the Church cannot or will not be honest, then young people are not going to follow. They're better informed these days, and they're not going to follow deceptions and lies in the meaningless name of tradition. I think it would be useful for the Methodists to re-examine some erroneous traditions and face up to the truth, starting with Baptism.

Infants are not ’saved’ or placed in God’s family by Baptism. Infants are incapable of knowing good from evil, and they’ve never left God’s family. Infants are already genuine members of God’s family … they are the innocent. Innocent of sin. Innocent of murder against Jesus Christ.

Infant Baptism, though a cute ceremoney, is not for the children. It’s for the adults and their commitments. It has no meaning as a deferred ‘decision’ of the infant. Nobody can make a decision to choose God for the child, and then have them grow into it. Nor would God leave the eternal fate of a child up to adults. This is hangover from the drunkenness of Catholic influence.

If the Church cannot or will not be honest, then young people are not going to follow. They’re better informed these days, and they’re not going to follow deceptions and lies in the meaningless name of tradition.

]]> By: Brenda http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/11/02/a-christian-community/comment-page-1/#comment-1034 Brenda Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:01:59 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/11/02/a-christian-community/#comment-1034 I have been a United Methodist my whole life. Same church, same town, same people. I am worried about my local congregation and my denomination. I wrote the following in a time of grief and frustration The Epitaph White was the color of my childhood world Pearl gloves, zippered Bible, church steeple Uniformity as well as unanimity Homogenous lives, cookie cutter people Purity, piety, and perfection Goals of our life, basis of belief Perfect blend of society and faith Family portrait, shown in relief When did they leave and where did they go? Booming organ, gospel hymns, packed pews Revival tent left town and we missed it Closed behind doors, hid from the view We felt it was in our best interest To shun evil behind glasses stained Outside humanity was drowning No room in the ark, just a little rain Much like the place and time of His birth Life without and within, far from same Religion allowed, but within limits Best if kept to a flickering flame His religious peers refused to see Him He sought company with lepers and whores We sit in our pews, patiently waiting For Him to walk through the Narthex doors Pride and devotion their order of worship Mankind’s needs obscured by his laws We kneel at denominational altars Accepted, denied; according to flaws Do we hear the church’s death rattle? Time to prepare the holy grave? Our life - not demise, His final mission We must regain what He died to save A part and apart, antonyms of being One outside the door; the other within Edify and lift, deny and discard Vineyard planters or judges of sin Who created this gaping chasm? Church’s apathy or society’s guilt No winner’s trophy in the game of blame A “we” to “them” bridge must be built Secular and sacred a world divided Fields to prepare, the new crops seeded There’s no market for condemnation Grace, the priceless commodity needed Time to search the remains, dying embers Find the Christ book beneath the decay Rent our garments, scatter the ashes Not shake our heads and just walk away Church is not a place of hide and seek, Constructed of lifeless brick or steel His Body infused with the Holy Spirit A world to be touched before it heals Our open doors, open minds, open hearts A wise beginning; an admirable start But invitations cannot be mailed out Personal delivery, a vital part The third world is outside our sanctuary The mission field in the house next door We must love their souls, before we win them Evangelism our passion, not our chore Here is the Church and here is the steeple Open the doors and there are the people Close the doors and let them pray Open the Church and they’re all gone away Into His world Or into our grave? I have been a United Methodist my whole life. Same church, same town, same people. I am worried about my local congregation and my denomination. I wrote the following in a time of grief and frustration

The Epitaph

White was the color of my childhood world
Pearl gloves, zippered Bible, church steeple
Uniformity as well as unanimity
Homogenous lives, cookie cutter people
Purity, piety, and perfection
Goals of our life, basis of belief
Perfect blend of society and faith
Family portrait, shown in relief

When did they leave and where did they go?
Booming organ, gospel hymns, packed pews
Revival tent left town and we missed it
Closed behind doors, hid from the view
We felt it was in our best interest
To shun evil behind glasses stained
Outside humanity was drowning
No room in the ark, just a little rain

Much like the place and time of His birth
Life without and within, far from same
Religion allowed, but within limits
Best if kept to a flickering flame
His religious peers refused to see Him
He sought company with lepers and whores
We sit in our pews, patiently waiting
For Him to walk through the Narthex doors

Pride and devotion their order of worship
Mankind’s needs obscured by his laws
We kneel at denominational altars
Accepted, denied; according to flaws
Do we hear the church’s death rattle?
Time to prepare the holy grave?
Our life – not demise, His final mission
We must regain what He died to save

A part and apart, antonyms of being
One outside the door; the other within
Edify and lift, deny and discard
Vineyard planters or judges of sin
Who created this gaping chasm?
Church’s apathy or society’s guilt
No winner’s trophy in the game of blame
A “we” to “them” bridge must be built

Secular and sacred a world divided
Fields to prepare, the new crops seeded
There’s no market for condemnation
Grace, the priceless commodity needed
Time to search the remains, dying embers
Find the Christ book beneath the decay
Rent our garments, scatter the ashes
Not shake our heads and just walk away

Church is not a place of hide and seek,
Constructed of lifeless brick or steel
His Body infused with the Holy Spirit
A world to be touched before it heals
Our open doors, open minds, open hearts
A wise beginning; an admirable start
But invitations cannot be mailed out
Personal delivery, a vital part

The third world is outside our sanctuary
The mission field in the house next door
We must love their souls, before we win them
Evangelism our passion, not our chore
Here is the Church and here is the steeple
Open the doors and there are the people
Close the doors and let them pray
Open the Church and they’re all gone away

Into His world
Or into our grave?

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