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	<title>Comments on: General Motors and the UMC</title>
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	<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/</link>
	<description>Faith, Morality, and Politics in a Black and White World</description>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-590</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 22:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-590</guid>
		<description>Adam,
Thanks for this thoughtful reflection. It&#039;s clear enough that we can&#039;t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. In addition to a strong commitment to discipling, I believe we will need to take risks, get outside of ourselves, listen better, find fresh language and create new forms in which we are the community of faith.

Can an old-line institution do this? Most organizational consultants I speak with say, no. However, we&#039;re not just an organization. If we re-think who we are as a church and who we want to be as a people in the 21st Century following Jesus, we may find energy and strength to be renewed in ways we thought impossible before.

I watched bishops meet with immigrant day workers at a Home Depot parking lot yesterday morning as part of the launch of re-think church. They listened to the stories of the workers, heard about their families, prayed with them, invited them to connect locally with the church and served them breakfast. We had church in the parking lot.

I take great hope from this, and much more. I hope your thoughts provoke the conversation to continue to rethink who we are as a connected people following Jesus.
Larry Hollon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,<br />
Thanks for this thoughtful reflection. It&#8217;s clear enough that we can&#8217;t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. In addition to a strong commitment to discipling, I believe we will need to take risks, get outside of ourselves, listen better, find fresh language and create new forms in which we are the community of faith.</p>
<p>Can an old-line institution do this? Most organizational consultants I speak with say, no. However, we&#8217;re not just an organization. If we re-think who we are as a church and who we want to be as a people in the 21st Century following Jesus, we may find energy and strength to be renewed in ways we thought impossible before.</p>
<p>I watched bishops meet with immigrant day workers at a Home Depot parking lot yesterday morning as part of the launch of re-think church. They listened to the stories of the workers, heard about their families, prayed with them, invited them to connect locally with the church and served them breakfast. We had church in the parking lot.</p>
<p>I take great hope from this, and much more. I hope your thoughts provoke the conversation to continue to rethink who we are as a connected people following Jesus.<br />
Larry Hollon</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 06:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-589</guid>
		<description>I appreciate Pastor Adam&#039;s forward-thinking approach about the denomination.

The key to the survival of the UMC is in finding an identity and that being an identity found in the Gospel.  If we would be people who proclaim it to the lost for justification from sin, and remind the saved about it during sanctification, we would be obedient to God&#039;s call on His church.  We could live joyfully in that fact and let the results be up to Him.

Sadly, decline, in my opinion, is predicated in religion/morality having replaced the Gospel in our churches over the years.  

My expanded thoughts can be found at the article attached to my name inn this post.  We can still be that &quot;city on a hill&quot; and let the light of Christ shine to the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate Pastor Adam&#8217;s forward-thinking approach about the denomination.</p>
<p>The key to the survival of the UMC is in finding an identity and that being an identity found in the Gospel.  If we would be people who proclaim it to the lost for justification from sin, and remind the saved about it during sanctification, we would be obedient to God&#8217;s call on His church.  We could live joyfully in that fact and let the results be up to Him.</p>
<p>Sadly, decline, in my opinion, is predicated in religion/morality having replaced the Gospel in our churches over the years.  </p>
<p>My expanded thoughts can be found at the article attached to my name inn this post.  We can still be that &#8220;city on a hill&#8221; and let the light of Christ shine to the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 01:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-588</guid>
		<description>Pastor Adam,

Your article and the comments that follow provided me with much insightful material for reflection.

In my small town, three of four small UM churches voted recently to merge.  The anguish on all sides has been brutal and the lack of basic Christian behavior has been disappointing.  I have never heard the phrase &quot;the will of God&quot; used as often and as haphazardly as I have since the merger issue arose.

I don&#039;t have the answers.  But I remain willing to listen, to reflect on writings such as yours, and to pray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pastor Adam,</p>
<p>Your article and the comments that follow provided me with much insightful material for reflection.</p>
<p>In my small town, three of four small UM churches voted recently to merge.  The anguish on all sides has been brutal and the lack of basic Christian behavior has been disappointing.  I have never heard the phrase &#8220;the will of God&#8221; used as often and as haphazardly as I have since the merger issue arose.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have the answers.  But I remain willing to listen, to reflect on writings such as yours, and to pray.</p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 16:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-587</guid>
		<description>Many things caused GM its financial problems.  Greed never produces good results!
Competing with a comparable or better product
always produces good resuls!  Cutting dealerships is just going to show on paper that
less money is going out and what is left may be
producing less of a loss.  Bottom line is, either produce a better product or go out of business!
     I grew up Methodist and my home church will always be home to me!  However, Many years
ago I got disappointed by all the red tape the
Methodist church required with a lack of
evangelism to go along with it!  We can not be
satisifed to just stay within our own walls and
expect to grow!  I am now a member of Vineyard
Christian Church.  When I started in 1988 we
had 325 members.  Easter week-end we had over
12,090 attending.  We have outgrown two new
sanctuaries!  Why?  The focus has always been
on strong biblical teaching and evangelism!  The word gets out fast!  It doesn&#039;t happen over
night though!  To combine churches and continue
to operate the same will only produce the same
results as in the past!  We, as christians, need to tell others that Jesus is Lord!  We can
not make it in life without Him!  Every member
needs to give this message to co-workers, neighbors, family members, etc.  I fully believe that if this is happening, there is
growth!  People need hope!  In the meantime we
need to cut cost by joining forces.  To close
churches does not guarantee there will be buyers for those buildings in communities where
unemploymnet is very high!  If the Methodist
church could not make it, how do we think any
other church will make it?  Or do they have
a better product?  We need to search our hearts
and especially the Lord for the real answers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many things caused GM its financial problems.  Greed never produces good results!<br />
Competing with a comparable or better product<br />
always produces good resuls!  Cutting dealerships is just going to show on paper that<br />
less money is going out and what is left may be<br />
producing less of a loss.  Bottom line is, either produce a better product or go out of business!<br />
     I grew up Methodist and my home church will always be home to me!  However, Many years<br />
ago I got disappointed by all the red tape the<br />
Methodist church required with a lack of<br />
evangelism to go along with it!  We can not be<br />
satisifed to just stay within our own walls and<br />
expect to grow!  I am now a member of Vineyard<br />
Christian Church.  When I started in 1988 we<br />
had 325 members.  Easter week-end we had over<br />
12,090 attending.  We have outgrown two new<br />
sanctuaries!  Why?  The focus has always been<br />
on strong biblical teaching and evangelism!  The word gets out fast!  It doesn&#8217;t happen over<br />
night though!  To combine churches and continue<br />
to operate the same will only produce the same<br />
results as in the past!  We, as christians, need to tell others that Jesus is Lord!  We can<br />
not make it in life without Him!  Every member<br />
needs to give this message to co-workers, neighbors, family members, etc.  I fully believe that if this is happening, there is<br />
growth!  People need hope!  In the meantime we<br />
need to cut cost by joining forces.  To close<br />
churches does not guarantee there will be buyers for those buildings in communities where<br />
unemploymnet is very high!  If the Methodist<br />
church could not make it, how do we think any<br />
other church will make it?  Or do they have<br />
a better product?  We need to search our hearts<br />
and especially the Lord for the real answers!</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Kraft</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-586</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Kraft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 15:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-586</guid>
		<description>Adam,

My wife Roxanne and I have relocated to Dallas from OP.  We are attending HPUMC.  I enjoy Mark Craig&#039;s messages but yours touched me at a deeper level.  I mention this because you are rare.  Your inspirational messages laced with humor are a gift from God.  If there was a way to use you to inspire like minded people to lead the church, I would agree with your idea of consolidation.  

We are in the business of creating a company unlike any other in our industry.  Of course the key to our success is finding the correct people to get on our bus.  Like minded people who do what we do because it is their passion.  The message we deliver to our fellow team mates is one that you gave in a sermon.  We ask our co workers to find their own song.  

The church needs to find a way to attract and keep more pastors like you plain and simple.  By creating an environment for people like you to live a successful and fulfilling life the church will attract a more dynamic group.  People that want to make a difference need the vehicle to affect change.  By consolidating and focussing the mission of the church more leaders will emerge.  

To begin this movement, an inspirational leader needs to emerge to set the tenor of the movement.  You are the perfect candidate to assume that role.  Your charismatic leadership will inspire many to join.  You just need a bigger stage to reach a broader congregation.  

Every revolution has a leader.  I vote for you.

Ted</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,</p>
<p>My wife Roxanne and I have relocated to Dallas from OP.  We are attending HPUMC.  I enjoy Mark Craig&#8217;s messages but yours touched me at a deeper level.  I mention this because you are rare.  Your inspirational messages laced with humor are a gift from God.  If there was a way to use you to inspire like minded people to lead the church, I would agree with your idea of consolidation.  </p>
<p>We are in the business of creating a company unlike any other in our industry.  Of course the key to our success is finding the correct people to get on our bus.  Like minded people who do what we do because it is their passion.  The message we deliver to our fellow team mates is one that you gave in a sermon.  We ask our co workers to find their own song.  </p>
<p>The church needs to find a way to attract and keep more pastors like you plain and simple.  By creating an environment for people like you to live a successful and fulfilling life the church will attract a more dynamic group.  People that want to make a difference need the vehicle to affect change.  By consolidating and focussing the mission of the church more leaders will emerge.  </p>
<p>To begin this movement, an inspirational leader needs to emerge to set the tenor of the movement.  You are the perfect candidate to assume that role.  Your charismatic leadership will inspire many to join.  You just need a bigger stage to reach a broader congregation.  </p>
<p>Every revolution has a leader.  I vote for you.</p>
<p>Ted</p>
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		<title>By: Linda</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 03:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-585</guid>
		<description>UMC is down 3 million members &quot;customers&quot; in the past 40 years, but has not reduced number of Seminaries &quot;factories/headquarters&quot;.  Church money &quot;Govt Bailout&quot; is supporting each about $1 million/year. And, Adam you want us to donate additional money directly to St Paul&#039;s Seminary &quot;Pontiac Plant&quot; to help get them out of their technology ice-age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UMC is down 3 million members &#8220;customers&#8221; in the past 40 years, but has not reduced number of Seminaries &#8220;factories/headquarters&#8221;.  Church money &#8220;Govt Bailout&#8221; is supporting each about $1 million/year. And, Adam you want us to donate additional money directly to St Paul&#8217;s Seminary &#8220;Pontiac Plant&#8221; to help get them out of their technology ice-age.</p>
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		<title>By: Casey Taylor</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 19:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-584</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see any shame being placed on small churches by Rev. Hamilton in this post.  In fact, I think he demonstrated an openness to new forms of pastoral ministry - particularly for small churches - that others in the UMC refuse to consider.  Example: Adam mentioned &quot;tentmakers,&quot; or bivocational pastors.  From my vantage point, the UMC at large would resist this because of clergy entitlement (and I&#039;m clergy, so I can say that).

But I also think Adam is asking the church as a whole to think missionally.  Many small churches pride themselves on blending into the American landscape; and what&#039;s a landscape without a little church?  That&#039;s not mission: it&#039;s museum.

Tiny Methodist churches dot small towns across America.  This is testimony to the time when Methodists pushed west with the pioneers.  Yet demographics and society itself have changed significantly.  Small churches cannot provide the upkeep on their aging facilities, nor provide for full time pastors.  I have often wondered what sense it makes to scatter our resources.

For example, I serve a church with about 50 people in a town of about 2,000.  There are at least 6+ UM churches within 10-15 miles of my charge, most of which are already yoked together on a multi-point charge.  Why not consolidate some of these churches into one regional church, providing a fresh sense of misison and pooled resources to reach the region the members hail from?  If people will drive 30 minutes to work or shop, why can&#039;t they drive 15 minutes to worship?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see any shame being placed on small churches by Rev. Hamilton in this post.  In fact, I think he demonstrated an openness to new forms of pastoral ministry &#8211; particularly for small churches &#8211; that others in the UMC refuse to consider.  Example: Adam mentioned &#8220;tentmakers,&#8221; or bivocational pastors.  From my vantage point, the UMC at large would resist this because of clergy entitlement (and I&#8217;m clergy, so I can say that).</p>
<p>But I also think Adam is asking the church as a whole to think missionally.  Many small churches pride themselves on blending into the American landscape; and what&#8217;s a landscape without a little church?  That&#8217;s not mission: it&#8217;s museum.</p>
<p>Tiny Methodist churches dot small towns across America.  This is testimony to the time when Methodists pushed west with the pioneers.  Yet demographics and society itself have changed significantly.  Small churches cannot provide the upkeep on their aging facilities, nor provide for full time pastors.  I have often wondered what sense it makes to scatter our resources.</p>
<p>For example, I serve a church with about 50 people in a town of about 2,000.  There are at least 6+ UM churches within 10-15 miles of my charge, most of which are already yoked together on a multi-point charge.  Why not consolidate some of these churches into one regional church, providing a fresh sense of misison and pooled resources to reach the region the members hail from?  If people will drive 30 minutes to work or shop, why can&#8217;t they drive 15 minutes to worship?</p>
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		<title>By: hc</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-582</link>
		<dc:creator>hc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-582</guid>
		<description>I refuse to compare the Church of Jesus Christ found in the United Methodist denomination to a human-made business built on profit. 

Whatever correlations exist show a lack of faith in what God can do with His bride...the people He loves...the people He sent His Son to die for.

GM is facing the consequences of sin! Greed is their downfall! 

Adam...Adam...Adam...this isn&#039;t time to close churches and create COR&#039;s all over the place.

This is time to give our churches, small and large, the hope that with God all things are possible and that any church who finds their calling to their particular community will find support from their district and conference, not a video feed from on high!

For disclosures sake, as a UM elder, I&#039;ve served the smallest of churches and now serve a church of 400 members. Part of our ministry has been reaching out to smaller churches and sharing our resources including personel and we&#039;ve seen some sort of growth of each congregation.

I&#039;m not ready to write off any church who is still ministering to their communities effectively. 

How dare anyone have the audicity to say that small doesn&#039;t work.  Shame Adam...shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I refuse to compare the Church of Jesus Christ found in the United Methodist denomination to a human-made business built on profit. </p>
<p>Whatever correlations exist show a lack of faith in what God can do with His bride&#8230;the people He loves&#8230;the people He sent His Son to die for.</p>
<p>GM is facing the consequences of sin! Greed is their downfall! </p>
<p>Adam&#8230;Adam&#8230;Adam&#8230;this isn&#8217;t time to close churches and create COR&#8217;s all over the place.</p>
<p>This is time to give our churches, small and large, the hope that with God all things are possible and that any church who finds their calling to their particular community will find support from their district and conference, not a video feed from on high!</p>
<p>For disclosures sake, as a UM elder, I&#8217;ve served the smallest of churches and now serve a church of 400 members. Part of our ministry has been reaching out to smaller churches and sharing our resources including personel and we&#8217;ve seen some sort of growth of each congregation.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not ready to write off any church who is still ministering to their communities effectively. </p>
<p>How dare anyone have the audicity to say that small doesn&#8217;t work.  Shame Adam&#8230;shame.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-581</guid>
		<description>Maybe we need to &quot;rethink&quot; the &quot;owndership experience&quot; as GM is saying.  We need to provide better training for our pastors to lead their congregations.  We can close the doors of some churches, but we still have to figure out how to impact our communities for Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe we need to &#8220;rethink&#8221; the &#8220;owndership experience&#8221; as GM is saying.  We need to provide better training for our pastors to lead their congregations.  We can close the doors of some churches, but we still have to figure out how to impact our communities for Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Oles</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2009/04/27/general-motors-and-the-umc/comment-page-1/#comment-580</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Oles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adamhamilton.cor.org/?p=376#comment-580</guid>
		<description>I think the real analogy for us UMCers here might be comparing GM to Toyota.  

 GM spent the 90s and the first 2/3rds of this decade selling SUVs and Hummers.   Big cars that made money in the short term.  Who cared if they were bad for the environment or for the most part unneccesary for the 99% of Americans who do not drive offroad.  

And they killed their innovative electric car program, like they killed the urban rail system sixty years earlier.   

Toyota developed the Prius.   And while the fancy HUMMER dealerships now look like abandoned wastelands,  Prius&#039; are everywhere and the 2010 Prius might be one of the best cars ever built.

I think the UMC has spent too much time and money building and selling Hummers and SUVS when they should have been developing new models that took on modern day challenges.  

I think the UMC has spent a good part of its history--at the local congregation level acting more like GM than Toyota.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the real analogy for us UMCers here might be comparing GM to Toyota.  </p>
<p> GM spent the 90s and the first 2/3rds of this decade selling SUVs and Hummers.   Big cars that made money in the short term.  Who cared if they were bad for the environment or for the most part unneccesary for the 99% of Americans who do not drive offroad.  </p>
<p>And they killed their innovative electric car program, like they killed the urban rail system sixty years earlier.   </p>
<p>Toyota developed the Prius.   And while the fancy HUMMER dealerships now look like abandoned wastelands,  Prius&#8217; are everywhere and the 2010 Prius might be one of the best cars ever built.</p>
<p>I think the UMC has spent too much time and money building and selling Hummers and SUVS when they should have been developing new models that took on modern day challenges.  </p>
<p>I think the UMC has spent a good part of its history&#8211;at the local congregation level acting more like GM than Toyota.</p>
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