Final Thoughts on General Conference
In the light of the cyclone that has hit Myanmar, and the tragic loss of life, General Conference seems somehow less important that it did last Friday. Before reading my final post about General Conference I would invite you to pause to pray for the people of Myanmar who have lost loved ones. Pray for their comfort and healing and for guidance for their leaders and the nations of the world for how they and we can best help the people there. I am also praying for something good to come from this tragedy for the people of Myanmar.
Now that several days have passed, I wanted to offer a few final reflections regarding the 2008 General Conference. The theme of the conference was A Future with Hope and I came away from the conference feeling genuine hope for our denomination. This was my third General Conference to attend (the first two were as an alternate delegate), and this conference felt different to me. The preaching and worship was, for the most part, outstanding. The Council of Bishops, along with the heads of several of the General Boards, cast a vision for our denomination that was compelling, and set goals that will both stretch us, but which are also attainable and which will have an impact upon the world. They spoke of “Four Areas of Focus” (we’ve got to come up with a better name than this!) which, as a denomination we will pursue in the next four years: 1. Developing outstanding leaders, both clergy and lay, 2. Starting new churches while renewing existing churches in order to reach new people for Christ, 3. Addressing root causes of poverty, 4. Fighting killer diseases of poverty including malaria and HIV/AIDS. I believe all four of these are important. Church of the Resurrection is already invested in each of them and this will only serve to encourage us to continue to work in these areas. I found it energizing to think about all 34,000 United Methodist Churches uniting together around these four visions.
Among the most inspiring moments of General Conference, for me, was watching the East Africa Children’s Choir sing and dance, and hearing President Johnson-Sirleaf of Liberia speak. Both pointed to the difference Christ is making through our churches in Africa. They were visible signs of hope in a place that has faced so much hardship.
In other important work, the church agreed to develop a plan for reorganizing in order to allow each region of the church (think, other nations or continents) to have a bit more autonomy and to see the denomination become a bit less U.S.-centric. It agreed to form an ongoing Faith and Order study committee to focus on Christian doctrine and practice. It entered into a formal agreement with the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America in which we each recognize the other as faithfully presenting the gospel. And we once again reaffirmed our current position on homosexuality (yet even this time the debate was conducted with a somewhat different spirit than in years past).
Regarding this last issue, I came away from the Conference more convinced than ever that we must find a different way to approach the homosexuality debate. Every four years it feels like a wound is opened again. This issue is underlying much of the legislation that is debated and is just under the surface of some of the larger issues of the conference including Judicial Council elections and how we’re organized as a denomination.
Even here I feel a bit of hope. The old players in this debate – those on the far right and the far left – are increasingly marginalized as they have alienated even some of their own followers. I see many of the younger clergy wanting to work to find a new way forward. I believe we have to name the underlying issue – the different ways each side understands scripture – and focus on clarifying where we agree and disagree on this issue, and why. Next, I think it may be possible for the younger clergy who are tomorrow’s leaders, those from the left and the right in the denomination to come together to find new approaches to these issues that will help us move forward. I am tentatively planning on inviting some of these young leaders who were delegates to General Conference to join me here in Kansas City for a twenty-four hour event aimed at doing just that sometime early next year.
Overall, I left General Conference last Friday more convinced than ever that our denomination has a future with hope.
27 Comment(s)
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Wesleyite | May 6, 2008 | Reply
Shouldn’t our first and main area of focus be reaching the lost for Christ?
william.jackson | May 6, 2008 | Reply
One small step towards a “third way” might be to find at least some items on which most people can agree, regardless of which side they come from. One possible item that I’ve not heard discussed in Methodist circles comes from the American Catholic church’s website:
“In brief, evidence indicates that being homosexual—that is, ‘experienc(ing) an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex’—is most often an experience that is discovered, not freely chosen (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2357-8).”
Some Catholic writings that accept the statement above go on to compare it to being an alcoholic. But I don’t think that comparison necessarily holds up to close scrutiny.
Wesleyite | May 6, 2008 | Reply
The scrutiny is found in scripture. It doesn’t matter what we think or want to think, it matters what God thinks.
william.jackson | May 6, 2008 | Reply
To Wesleyite — Thanks for pointing out that in the last sentence of my earlier post I drifted off into a controversial area, which detracted from the primary point I wanted to make.
Just for my own clarification, is it your belief that any exploratory discussions between those on different sides of the wall in this area are uncalled for?
cokey | May 6, 2008 | Reply
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that we, through some posts and Adams views, and scripture, established that homosexuality is sin. Sin does not prohibit positions of authority in the church, that would include everyone, of course. But what about unrepentant sin? What is the difference between gays and adulterers and polygamists, fornicaters and other sexual deviates. Its’ all sin and just use your imagination for further comparisons. I can love the sinner ( myself included) but a unrepentant pastor? Just does not square with Timothy or any other scripture.
That they even consider this issue is beyond my comprehention. We lower this bar and we open a floodgate of iniquity. It has begun. Are we blind?
jnoble5826 | May 6, 2008 | Reply
About the reorginization, if it passes, do you all think this will allow the UM church to split along national lines like, say, the Episcopals? Just curious… I haven’t had time to read the detail of the legislation as of yet, but plan to… I’m curious what control measures may be included, if any, that allow autonomy but discourage a sort of congregationalism along national lines…
Wesleyite | May 6, 2008 | Reply
I’m just saying, as Christians we are under God’s authority and must understand that. When it comes to say “sin” we don’t get to choose what is and what isn’t. For the gospel, we are to preach the gospel as taught within scripture.
Cokey I agree, everyone is a sinner it really is the response to sin that really is important. As Christians, even if we sin we should hate it, and seek to do the opposite (repent) etc..
Michael Hagerman | May 6, 2008 | Reply
I think the debate is over whether or not homosexuality is a sin, not whether we will allow unrepentant sinners to hold authority positions.
Personally, I believe you have to go a long way via interpretations and shifted perspectives to see the Bible as NOT condemning homosexuality. The last time Adam preached on the subject was a while ago and I think he tried to take us in that direction which I think is a good thing even though I don’t agree with the conclusion. I think you also have to go a long way to see the Bible as NOT accepting of slavery or 2nd-class citizenry for women so like I said, such interpretive exercises are probably good for us.
I guess what I find frustrating is that at the end of this General Conference, the gathering of leading minds in Christian theology can’t decide if homosexuality is sinful!? For me the debate starts and ends there…if it is sinful then I’m with cokey and there is no way I could see how the church could endorse unrepentant sin? I’m willing to accept whatever verdict the church hands down even if homosexuality is not deemed sinful (not that I wouldn’t struggle with it) but it seems like a decision should have been made by now, regardless of the complexity.
Wesleyite | May 6, 2008 | Reply
” I’m willing to accept whatever verdict the church hands down even if homosexuality is not deemed sinful (not that I wouldn’t struggle with it) but it seems like a decision should have been made by now, regardless of the complexity.”
If we know it to be sinful and the denomination rejects scriptural truth, how could we support that?
ken carter | May 6, 2008 | Reply
thank you for these reflections. i too would love to see a third way, on both the painful issues and more particularly in our way of conferencing. thanks for allowing God to use you for these purposes.
Andrew Conard | May 6, 2008 | Reply
Adam – Thanks for your your thoughts on General Conference. I do find that the overall feeling of hope is one that is quite positive. Not having been at any previous General Conferences, I heard that the tone and feeling was quite a bit different than several previous. I think that being able to move forward from in a new way, with a new way of carrying on dialogue is exciting and one that could potentially bear great fruit.
Wesleyite – In response to your first comment, our mission as a denomination is to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world. What do you think?
Wesleyite | May 7, 2008 | Reply
Making disciples of Jesus Christ is perfectly fine. However, the last part of the statement is one that has puzzled me for some time. Our primary reason to become a Christian, to follow Jesus etc… is not for anything better in this life and on Earth, the primary reason is so we can be justified in the eyes of God through the blood of Christ who died for our sins. We become Christians so we can be saved from our sins. When this happen we are transformed with new hearts and minds where we become dead to sin and in the process of sanctification then do concerns such as poverty, genocide etc… mean more to us. But more so, then once we experience conversion we should have a heart for the lost, otherwise we aren’t very loving at all.
Thinking mankind can make this world good is a fairy tale. The only true transforming of the world will happen when Christ returns.
Think about 2 Corinthians 4:4
“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
The denomination doesn’t even have the real reason to be a Christian in its mission statement, do we have confidence that the leaders really know hy someone should be a Christian?
Wesleyite | May 7, 2008 | Reply
I would invite readers and especially Rev. Hamilton to read this article from William J. Abraham, a professor at the seminary at SMU.
“United Methodists at the End of the Mainline”
http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9806/articles/abraham.html
cokey | May 7, 2008 | Reply
Wesleyite – thanks for the informative artical…wow and I was just worried about finding a parking spot. Seriously, I thought these trends might run deeper than I suspected. Embarrassingly enough, we didn’t do alot of research on this denomination before joining. Quite enlightening…and disturbing.
Adam | May 7, 2008 | Reply
Wesleyite, I’ve known Dr. Abraham for a long time – I served briefly with him on the evangelical council at SMU while I was in seminary. I read the article. I particularly appreciated the closing two paragraphs:
In the short term we need some way to hold off precipitous actions on the homosexual issue that will lead to the division of the church. But it is clear that homosexuality is but one of a number of potentially church-dividing issues. In the long term we need to stimulate conversation toward the emergence of a new theological consensus that might command the allegiance of a majority in the church at large.
However this important conversation continues, and it surely will continue, it must be informed by the very real possibility that the Liberal Protestant project exemplified by United Methodism was flawed from the start. Perhaps the very idea of theological pluralism was bound to self-destruct in time. These are the ominous questions now engaged. The truth and the church we love deserve from parties on all sides of these questions clear thinking, honest speaking, mutual respect—and much prayer and fasting.
There is much I agree with in the article, and a few things I disagree with. An emerging group of younger clergy are asking if both the right wing of the church, which I sense you represent, and the left wing, have it wrong. I believe, with Dr. Abraham, that we’ve got to find a new way forward. He and I may not agree completely on what that looks like.
sim02 | May 7, 2008 | Reply
Hey Cokey–and Wesleyite as you also jumped in on this–I wonder what your definition of unrepentant sin is. I know plenty of pastors, lay leaders, preachers, bishops, and evangelists in multiple denominations that have sin and are apparently unrepentant in that they continue to behave in this matter. Pride, lust, idolatry, greed… don’t you know anyone in significant positions of Christian leadership that sins in one of these ways? Don’t you know someone that is prideful but would suggest that they are not? The thing is… it’s the Holy Spirit at work in us that reveals sin to us and brings us to repentance. And I imagine that’s there is plenty of sin for the Holy Spirit to reveal to each of us over a lifetime.
Wesleyite | May 7, 2008 | Reply
Rev.Hamilton, I appreciate what has gone on at COR and the people who have come to Christ at the church. I also appreciate your reading these comments and taking time to be in conversation with us.
I also appreciated Dr. Abraham’s article as I appreciated his “Wesley for Armchair Theologians”. I wouldn’t say I represent the right because there are plenty of issues and attitudes that sometimes rise up within it that I disagree with. For instance I was happy to see you as one of the Charter Signatories of the Evangelical Manifesto realeased today.I agreed with probably %90 of it and find myself on board.
Being younger I have found myself identitfying with pastors like Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. Much like COR, they are a church that started off extremely small and now are very big, and in a town with many non-christians. He talks about in one hand he keeps a closed fist about theology because there are plenty of things that are not to change such as the hypostatic unionw, of Jesus as fully God and fully man. On the other hand, with methods, in his other hand is an open palm that allows for freedoms with methods as long as they don’t conflcit with any commands and principles for churches, such as praying to Allah or calling God “Mother”. So one one hand, theology and doctrine are solid and sound, but open to change with regards to some methods and style of worship etc…
For me this is what I appreciate about Wesley and Methodism. As I grew to understand it, Wesley and historical Methodists understood extremes on both sides were not holding truth captive and there was the truth to be found elsewhere in the middle. Take Wesley’s view on predestination, as told in Dr.Abraham’s book. Wesley wasn’t a hardcore calvinist but he also wasn’t a full extreme Armenian.
Change is great, when we talk about styles and “some” methods. Again Mark Driscoll says Seeker sensitive is no good but rather seeker sensible is what the goal should be. We should make the Gospel make sense to people,but not compromise it. Methodism in America is becoming archaic in some areas. I would encourage anyone here to check out his church. He can be a little much sometimes, but doctrine wise he is sound and what has gone on in that church in a town where he says has “more dogs than Christians” is remarkable. I encourage people here as well as Rev. Hamilton to check it out, there might even be SOME similarities in Mars Hill as well as COR.
We must examine what “Sacred cows” we have in our churches, what worship styles, building uses etc… have we lifted up to a place higher than they should be?
As for unrepentant sin I merely would say its someone letting their ego/pride whatever say they are nto a sin or something is not a sin and ignoring the convicting the Holy Spirit is doing of them. A Christian will sin, but the difference is they know that sin and they HATE it, and seek on the power of the Holy Spirit to change them and work in them, and they remain aware of it and not turn a blind eye and do not become prideful as they have no sin. Afterall scripture tells us the fool in his heart says he has no sin.
For the UMC to really experience renewal it needs to regrasp the Gospel,and the message of salvation. God is who changes people, God is who saves people, why would we preach something other than that beautiful truth?
As Dr. Abraham points out in his book, Wesley’s primary concern was the souls of people. After someone experiences justification, they then go into a stage of sanctification, here social issues as well as evangelism become important because with a new heart, new things matter. We can’t treat people as if they are in sanctification when they have never experienced justification.
I don’t think that or anything in our church has to be consrvative or liberal. I’d like to be, like Wesley,a “man of one book”, and let the Creator show me the way instead of the created. Wherever that falls, so be it. I trust that God has it right.
cokey | May 8, 2008 | Reply
sim02-my definition of unrepentant sin does’t matter if it is not scriptural. The Bible doesn’t paint a pretty picture on unrepentance. Apart from repentance there is no salvation, faith without works is dead, and we could go on and on. There are plenty of unrepentant people in significant positions in the church, I agree, but if the Holy Spirit is not revealing sin to them maybe they don’t have the Holy Spirit in them, so they don’t belong in those positions, for now at least. Tolerating blatant unrepentant sin in leadership positions will lead to our demise, does’t the Bible tell us they are held to a higher standard? Oh well, there’s always the doctrine of election to fall back on…
houseam | May 8, 2008 | Reply
I have read the arguments for and against homosexuality (including within these blogs) and its place in Christianity for many years. I am a practicing homosexual in a committed relationship of nearly 5 years. And, I am a member of COR. But, first and foremost, I am a Christian, and as Bono (from U2) has stated, I say that with hesitation only because I am fully aware of my complete inability to live up to that name. We don’t have to, however, because Christ already has.
I have never responded to these blogs because I haven’t wanted to stir up more debate, but I think it is time for a response on this topic from someone who is gay. I also want to say up front that I speak in generalizations quite a bit, and of course I don’t mean that my language is all-inclusive. And, I apologize for the long response.
I came to Christ when I was a child, but I rebelled when I was a teenager and realized I was gay. Over the last 12 years, I have gone from completely abandoning God out of anger to embracing everything that I could to change the way I was. I attended Focus On the Family’s Love Won Out conference even though various Love Won Out leaders have been fired by Focus On the Family for being seen in gay bars or reverting to a homosexual lifestyle. I have been to Christian counseling, which failed to cure me. Nothing ever permanently worked, and I would again abandon God. Later I would pray and beg for God to change me, asking Him to end my life so that I would not have to endure this anymore. I usually ended up sobbing on the floor and hating myself.
In 2001, my cousin died tragically in an accident. My thought of God and death intensified and out of my fear of hell, I attempted to be straight and even asked out women. I looked for a church and visited many Methodist churches because I grew up Methodist. I attended a service at a Methodist church in Lee’s Summit, Missouri, after which I asked the pastor about this particular churches’ views of the divinity of Christ (only because so many churches deny who Christ is), but instead of answering my question, he stated that I “would never see any funny business occurring in this church – like marrying gays or something.” His point was that his church was conservative, but I ask you who are critical of homosexuals to imagine how I felt. I was trying to find a church where I could be loved, and I could serve the Lord, and the only thing the pastor said to me, a complete stranger, concerned negativity toward homosexuals. I never went back.
I attended COR for the first time in 2002. While preaching that Jesus is the son of God and proclaiming the essentials of Christianity, COR also taught that one of its main goals was to reach out to and serve the lost. I didn’t hear the fire and damnation sermons and finger pointing about the effect that abortion and homosexuality has had on our society, and for the first time in my life, I felt that I could call a church “home.”
I began dating (men) again, and I felt guilty. Adam preached a sermon on homosexuality, and I did not attend the service because I was afraid. I didn’t fear that Adam would say that homosexuality was sinful, but I feared that I would hear Adam say that homosexuals were not welcome and that they were condemned. I finally listened to a recording of the sermon, and Adam’s approach to this subject was the most thoughtful approach I have heard. I then read Adam’s chapter on homosexuality in Confronting the Controversies. Still feeling angst over my “sinfulness,” I spent one night on the floor in my home praying for hours, asking God what I could do to change the way I was. And in a rare moment, I heard God’s response. First, God reminded me that all of my sin (both known and unknown) has been atoned for. Thus, regardless of whether homosexuality is a sin, I had already been bought. I realized that God is so much bigger than my own sinfulness, and He is big enough and capable of handling my sin (if it is sin). I also realized that we have a God who is inclusive in that He went to such incredible lengths to save us that I cannot imagine that He is standing at the gate trying to nitpick our sins to keep us out. We know that’s not the standard because our justification comes from Him. Our God loves us, and I believe that God desires our love and adoration in return, and this is not contingent upon our being blameless.
God also let me know that he knew my heart. My desire was to serve God because I loved God. I think this mattered more to Him than my being gay. God also helped me realize that for years I had been so preoccupied with my homosexuality that I had failed to tell others about Jesus, and I had been failing to help others because of my own shame and grief. In this rare moment, I felt such relief because I felt such conviction that God did not want me worrying about this because it was keeping Him from being able to otherwise work in my life. What mattered was that I loved Him and that I was loving others. It was one of the first times in my life that I felt absolute assurance that I was not going to hell because of my homosexuality. And, I’m not.
In Adam’s sermon on homosexuality, Adam compared the role of God as “Father” to that of a human father, and ultimately, himself. Adam said that if his own daughter told him she were gay, he would love her still. Those are some of the most important words I’ve ever heard because they have helped to heal so much hurt. And, if Adam is capable of loving his daughter, then God is capable of loving me in spite of myself. I believe Billy Graham’s response when asked how he would respond upon learning that one of his children was gay was that he would love them all the more because they would need it all the more. Gays need to be loved by the church, not because society is harmful, but because the church and its response has been so hurtful. Adam concluded his sermon by saying that he wanted gays to know that they are welcome at COR and that he would love to be their pastor. Few know what this meant to me.
As for the biblical passages concerning homosexuality, there are no easy answers. In thinking about the bible’s prohibitions, I have come to appreciate certain arguments. First, the bible’s prohibitions must be taken in the context of all of scripture. Jesus summed up scripture when He said that the greatest commandments are to love your God and second to love your neighbor as yourself. Loving your neighbor as yourself means that we should try to understand what life is like in other people’s shoes. How can you love your neighbor as yourself if you cannot even put yourself in their shoes? Try and put yourself in a homosexual’s shoes – imagine growing up and hearing that gays will be cast into hell; imagine later discovering you have homosexual feelings; imagine trying to hide it from the people you love most; imagine having your friends hate you, your family leave you, your church deny you; imagine feeling guilty, condemned, and ashamed all of the time; imagine hearing the (compassionate) insulting phrase that “I don’t hate you, I hate the sin. But, I love the sinner;” imagine being told that homosexuality is not sinful, it’s the practice that is sinful and that you will be fine as long as you abstain; imagine being told to never be in a relationship, to never be sexual, to never get married, to never have kids, to never adopt, to never fall in love; imagine being told that only by doing these things will God love you and will we love you; imagine being told that if you fail then you are condemned to hell. I ask you to understand how utterly hopeless this makes us feel. And if you act like it’s not a big deal, think about how devastating it is for women if they find they are cannot have children, even though they can still marry, adopt, and live life. And yet, when gay people want families, which the church so often points out is fundamental, it denies that gays should be entitled to a family and labels its request as a “gay agenda.” It should not come as a surprise that the gay community is very estranged from the Christian community.
Although there are a handful of verses in the bible concerning homosexuality, most of the bible does not discuss it. If the bible does not focus on it, why is the church focusing on it? Further, Jesus never addressed it, or at least the gospel writers did not discuss it if He did. If all scripture is God-breathed, then God decided what to include as words of Jesus, and again, Jesus did not discuss homosexuality. Some may claim that this was not as big of an issue in Jesus’ day as it is today, but God was fully aware that the church would be debating this issue today.
Moreover, the Ten Commandments do not refer to homosexuality. In fact, there are 6 commandments before adultery, the first sexual sin mentioned, is even mentioned – honor your mother and father, do not murder, do not take the Lord’s name in vain, remember the Sabbath, and others are listed first. I also find it telling that the commandment to remember the Sabbath was the 4th commandment, and when questioned about His failure to observe it, Jesus responded that man was not made to serve the law. There are two important notes to take from this: first, Jesus said that there are times the law is not to be observed because there is some superior purpose; and second, a religious leader who was sure that failure to observe the Sabbath was sinful accused Jesus of sinning, but was wrong. This makes me believe that people in our churches who are so sure about church law and doctrine should remember that they are not always right. And I would strongly caution anyone against religious arrogance if they believe they are 100% correct in their interpretation of the scriptures.
I also tend to believe that if something is deemed sinful, there is a reason it is so. For example, drug abuse is sinful because it is emotionally and physically destructive, it leads to other sins (theft, deceit, etc.), and because it becomes a god to many. I have a harder time seeing any such arguments for homosexuality. Perhaps homosexual sexual activity could be physically harmful, but so can heterosexual sexual activity. Or maybe homosexuals should abstain because God has a higher calling on their lives – but, I don’t believe there would be a disproportionate number of gays with higher callings than there are straight people, and for most people who God has called, it seems that God does not require abstention from marriage.
Some have claimed that only unrepentant homosexuality is sinful and those who do not repent are damned. I believe this distorts scripture, which is very simple. “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Rom 10:13 (NIV). Or, “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” Rom 10:9-10 (NIV). It is our heart that justifies us, not our acts. The heart of the Gospel is faith. Further, I believe that most people, including Christians, will die with unrepentant sin. For example, what about Christian smokers? What about resentment or lack of forgiveness? If the answer is whether a homosexual has repented, I believe we are in dangerous territory. What about a sin that a Christian commits for the first time right before death that the Christian would have committed again if he or she had lived? God knows our hearts, and I think we are defined by our hearts, not our acts. If Christians are totally honest, most have unrepentant sin. Ultimately, Christians can do as I’ve done here and throw verse after verse at each other to make a point, which is why you have to look at the totality of scripture, which is summarized by God’s redeeming work and love for us.
I appreciate COR and Adam Hamilton because I have learned that COR is not driven by abortion or homosexuality, but by loving God and the unchurched. I fail to understand why the church is so upset about homosexuality and fails to address so many other sins like child abuse (Jesus clearly stated severe penalties for this, and the church rarely addresses it even though it’s rampant), alcoholism, greed, pride, stealing (even stuff like pencils, pens, paperclips from work), cussing, taking God’s name in vain, poor parenting, lack of respect for each other, failing to love each other, failing to forgive, lusting in your heart, being drunk, etc. I believe that God cares more that I am rude to another person or when I cut someone off in traffic than when I have sex with my partner. In the former situations I hurt someone else and put myself first, but in the latter I’m engaging in a consensual physical act that is not hurting anyone. No matter which service I attend, I always see people race out of church, cut others off, and act disgracefully coming into or leaving church. And yet these are the same people sitting next to me in church and pointing their fingers at the sinfulness around them. We have so many other problems that fail to be addressed.
I believe that COR focuses on love and not sin (and addresses sin as appropriate). I believe there is something backwards about churches that focus on sin first – God overcame death, tragedy, and sin, and yet many churches allow sin to define them instead of Christ. This is tragic to me, and this is one of the reasons the church is declining. The church is not declining because there are so many gays. The reason that so many gays don’t attend Christian churches is because the churches have already kicked them out. This is completely the opposite of what God has asked you (and me) to do. And though many Christians claim that gays are hateful to them, Christians put them down first. And, regardless the church should be praying for its enemies. I don’t think that gays are really putting down Christ most of the time anyway – they are reacting to the hurt and pain that has been inflicted in the name of Christ for so long. Christians are called to love and serve others, including gays.
I also must point out the churches’ hypocrisy here. Many Christians claim they reject homosexuals because they are living sinful lifestyles. But, so are Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, and any other religion that fails to recognize Jesus as Savior and God. Yet, these other people aren’t treated with the contempt and hatred that gays are, and under Christian doctrine, where these other people end up is at best questionable (and denial of Christ is certainly sinful). So, why is the church so hateful to gays? I simply do not understand.
In the end, I had to come to terms with my Christianity and homosexuality. I had a choice – to one day be with Jesus because I feared hell or to one day be with Jesus because I know who He is and I love Him, and in spite of all of my problems, He has already justified me. At the end of the day, if homosexuality is a sin, I don’t think it deserves the priority status it has had for so long. The sins that Christ became angry over were sins committed in His name (like the money changing in the temple) or over hypocrisy in the church. He was angry at religious leaders. And while he pointed out the sins of others, He did so out of compassion and love, and he didn’t condemn them based only on sin, but on rejection of Him.
One of the most often quoted scriptures regarding homosexuality is Corinthians 6:9-10: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” But, why do Christians citing this verse so often fail to mention the other sins listed here? Sexual immorality applies to the thoughts in our minds, idolators worship something other than God, we live in a greedy society (this is true within the church, too), and I have seen Christians drink too much. I don’t believe these sins will necessarily keep a person out of heaven because when taken in the context of scripture, it is clear that we have a God who wants to save us from these sins, and this is the theme of the bible. I imagine most Christians tell lies frequently – think of the white lies you have told in the past week, and yet this passage makes no distinction. I am certain theologians could debate whether this passage includes white lies. And, finally, the end to this passage continues by saying, “But you were justified…” Thus, this passage refers to the way something was – but that something was changed not because the act stopped occurring (a material thing), but because the person was justified (a supernatural thing). Even this passage leads back to the conclusion that it is our faith, not acts, that justify us.
Although it’s becoming cliché, the bible warns strongly against judging others. In fact, some believe that we will be judged in the same way that we judge others. I would rather be on the side that is forgiving than the one that is condemning because I believe that when we condemn, we take on ourselves the role of God and thereby take His name in vain.
Adam Hamilton finished his sermon on homosexuality by imagining for a moment that God has a primary will and some sort of secondary will. Adam’s ponders that maybe homosexuality is not what God would choose for our lives. But, if a person finds that he or she is homosexual, God’s response to that person may change in the way that a parent’s love for a homosexual child can change. I, too, can imagine such a scenario. For example, if I had a child born with downs syndrome, I would be disappointed because my child’s life would be more difficult. But, I would love the child even more and I believe many parents end up having similar responses to their gay children. And that is what the gay community wants from Christians – love. If the Christian church could start being known for the positive way it treats people, miracles would happen, and the church in this nation could start healing. One pastor did that for me, and it has changed my life. I am so grateful for Adam, his insight, and his love, which is a mere reflection of my Father’s love for me.
I doubt I will persuade anyone here, but I think it’s important that you know that your comments are being read by others (gays included), and I think a gay person’s point of view is important anytime homosexuality is discussed.
Adam | May 8, 2008 | Reply
Houseam, I have not completely finished reading your post – I just got home from a late night meeting at the church, but I want to thank you for posting. We generally ask people not to post such long posts, but I think it was important for you to tell your story. I am also grateful that no one immediately stepped in to debate or respond. I am guessing you’ve heard all of the debate before, as have most people on this site. I also think it is important, when considering this topic, for others to actually hear from a gay person who is seeking to follow Jesus Christ. I am glad that you feel welcomed at Church of the Resurrection. This is my hope. I am humbled and grateful to be your pastor. I don’t fully understand this issue. I attempted to capture in the chapter on homosexuality in my book, Seeing Gray, the complexity of this issue, how different Christians might view the issue, and how I have come to see it at this time in my life. The chapter includes the text of the sermon you cited with a bit of additional information. Again, thank you for sharing your story.
PhD | May 9, 2008 | Reply
I think that what the gay blogger reveals is that grace triumphs over justice. So often Christians are confused by the interplay between grace and justice. And rightfully so. Grace is the OPPOSITE of justice. God offers grace because we cannot survive justice.
God expects the same grace to be extended toward others that He has extended to us. “While we were still sinners Christ died for us.” The purpose of God’s kindness is to reveal His love and lead people to repentance. Those who are caught up in justice and insist on judging others through the law ONLY are in danger of being judged by the law ONLY, a judgment that they cannot survive. “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
For example, someone who believes that an unrepented sin will result in hell is in a hell of their own making. Perhaps they forgot to repent just one sin in their life. Perhaps they don’t even realize that something is a sin. Perhaps they don’t believe something is a sin, but that it is. Nobody can stand up to this test. I know I’ve not repented every sin because time is simply too short, my memory is simply too short, and my conscience falls short.
Northstar | May 9, 2008 | Reply
Mercy does indeed triumph over justice, but the question remains…why does God call homosexuality a sin? Is adultery ok too? How about taking out loans and not paying them back. Does mercy triumph over that too? Is this what we teach our children. As a mom, I need to know these things. In the past I’ve had the word of God to follow. Marriage to a man is good, stealing is wrong. I knew what to teach, but I’m not sure now. I feel like I’m sitting at a stop light and all the cars are moving. I know I’m sitting still because the median doesn’t move and the stop light doesn’t move and I look around and think “Oh, I better get going” ….But, what if the median starts moving and the lights are moving and the cars are moving…am I still sitting still? That’s what’s happening to the church. The bible used to be the firm foundation, unshaken, unmoveable. Something to use as a sign post. What has happened?
PhD | May 9, 2008 | Reply
Teaching your children, Northstar, what is right and wrong is important. I think it’s also important that you teach them that you will always love them, even when they do things that hurt you and disappoint you. Unless that’s a lie and you won’t love them when they hurt and disappoint you.
God loves each person even through God’s immense hurt and disappointment. God expresses His hurt and disappointment in deep ways through the heart, conscience, and mind. God is a good parent, even though He continues to love us through the worst of our depravity. If God can so love his children, then it seems okay to me for parents to always love their children, no matter what. In fact it seems okay to love people no matter what others do.
How do you deal with sins? This varies depending on whether you are deal with the sins of your children, the sins of other children, the sins of adult Christians, or with the sins of adults outside the Church.
Adults who are not in the Church do not sign up for Christian scrutiny. So, if their sins do not victimize others directly, and if you are definitely not invited into the discussion, then basically it’s none of your business in a free society. Please notice, for example, in the sins of adultery, theft, etc., that there are innocent victims, making it everyone’s business. Who are the innocent victims in homosexuality? Pushing your attitudes onto non-Christians who don’t want you in their lives and who are not victimizing others is not called helping. It’s called meddling, and it comes off as self-righteous intrusiveness. It doesn’t much resemble love, but more resembles sounding brass … like a big obnoxious gong sounded by someone who likes bullying others into doing what they want.
Paul distinguishes between those inside the Church and those outside: “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?” Those inside the Church do sign up for Christian scrutiny, like it or not.
cokey | May 9, 2008 | Reply
I fear my comments on unrepentant sin may have been offensive. The intention was not to be judgemental, we were discussing unrepentant sin in positions of authority within the church, which I would define as all self-aware disobedience to scripture without reguard to man or God; pride, lust, greed, whatever. Leaders have enormous influence on people and children in paticular. This is were sin hurts more than oneself. This,Ph d, is were homosexualitys’ pain (as articulated by housem)is not isolated, in addition to aids, disease, suicides, its’ tragic. I have to say Houseam seems to be in pain and IS a victim and needs our love and prayers. In passing I would tell him we all have sin and circumstances that shake our faith to the core. I think that’s one of Gods’ ways to strenghthen our faith. He intends for us to ‘examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith’.
One idea keeps coming up in recent posts, that of grace triumphing over justice. In one sense, of course, Christ did just that. But I would be careful not to shortchange justice because that will shortchange Christs’ atonment. Only an accurate view of human sinfulness will reveal an accurate understanding of Gods’ grace. If we ever knew the full measure of what justice cost God, we would be devastated beyond anything we could endure.
Northstar raises a good point; how and what are we to think if scripture is null and void? I think this is key. How would Satan succeed in corrupting mankind? He attacks our thinking first and then our families, the core of our existence. It mostly happens slowly over centuries and almost goes unnoticed, until man is the focus of man. In the name of love are we compromising our God-given conscience? In the name of love are we letting truth die? Trying to tell the truth takes love and compassion regardless of the implications. I would hope anything I say would glorify God and help to illuminate the path to Him. I pray God would relieve me of vindicating myself.
houseam | May 10, 2008 | Reply
Hello, friends. PhD summarized my post well by stating that justice triumphs over mercy. I believe that mercy triumphs over all sin when we ask for forgiveness (not repaying loans, adultery, etc.). I think children should be taught about scripture’s authority, but children should know that there are varying interpretations and that Christians have debated the bible for centuries. The bible has not been “unshakeable.” Early church leaders debated what books to include and even debated Christ’s divinity. Denominations today disagree on whether children should be baptized, what books should be included, whether women should speak in church, and whether physical baptism is necessary (even for infants) in order to go to heaven. Some of our Christian friends believe in purgatory, in praying to the saints, the divinity of Mary, and the authority of the Pope on church doctrine. Jews believe they violate the prohibition against working on the Sabbath by tearing toilet paper after using the restroom. These debates are not new. Think of the U.S. church in the 1800s – when much of the church claimed that slavery was sinful, but where many other churches argued the bible condoned it (which it arguably seems to do in many places). Many even used the bible to declare that blacks were less human. This country (at a time when so many were Christian) nearly divided over its pour treatment of black people – people who were being whipped, murdered, raped, and separated continually – I think we are doing better today. The church has always had deeply controversial issues, some of which cause churches to split, and the homosexual debate isn’t any different. It could be that in 100 years, homosexuality is completely a non-issue. Also, remember that when discussing these issues with children, you do so by imagining that there could be a day when one of your children tell you that he or she is gay.
Cokey, your comments did not offend me. I feel confident about my relationship with the Lord. But, many other homosexuals do not and are offended. Is it offensive to God when the people he has created are told by his followers that they will go to hell? And, what is the greater purpose to be served – for a homosexual Christians or non-Christians to hear that God wants a relationship with them and loves, or that they are condemned no matter what because they continue to engage in their gay lifestyle? Gays have heard the churches’ message loud and clear. As a result, we are not winning these people for Christ.
I do not live in a homosexual relationship (whereby I am intentionally unrepentant) without regard to man or God. I mentioned above my years of prayers and conversations with God. God is my first consideration. Also, by engaging in conversation here and otherwise with my Christian family and friends, I continue to take into account man’s consideration. And let me say that I completely listened to Adam’s comments discussing the conservative point of view about homosexuality. I have read 4-5 books on how to revert to heterosexuality (written by Christian authors), but they fail to realize that I can’t revert because I was never straight in the first place.
Cokey, you point to the pain that I wrote about above. The churches’ unrelenting message of damnation caused much pain (and politicians don’t help either). My life has been painful, but I haven’t thought of suicide since years ago when I felt I was destined for hell. Keep in mind I was also closer to my teenage years then – a time I imagine that suicide is more common. But, God’s grace has eradicated so much pain through prayer, through my family’s unconditional love, through Adam’s comments (like his desire to be my pastor), through meeting Christians at COR who are more concerned with AIDS or poverty than with my sexuality. My healing continues, and I am and continue to be a new creation in Christ. I no longer characterize my life by pain. And I do not take God’s forgiveness for granted (or cheapen justice) because I know of the huge amount of grace God has provided for me. This makes me more graceful to others, too.
Emphasizing grace does not shortchange justice. Justice was carried out 2,000 years ago. I believe God wants the emphasis to be on grace because we otherwise live life full of guilt, which destroys us (hence, my former life of pain). That’s why grace is so amazing. Justice is the logical response to our sin. God has willfully withheld justice and granted us grace, something that defies logic, considering we are God’s creation and therefore completely subject to God’s dominion. But God’s response, and my only choice, is His grace.
PhD | May 12, 2008 | Reply
It certainly is possible that you, BertramC, do not subscribe to Jesus’ teachings. But if you are not a Christian, then why have you gone out of your way to find this forum in which to vent your anger and hatred? On what do you base your anger and hatred if not your Christianity?
Adam | May 12, 2008 | Reply
Guys or gals, I’d like to call a truce to this argument. I haven’t been monitoring this debate but noticed it started more civil and turned more angry, as often happens. Can we pause this debate for now, take a breath, and recognize that it is unlikely we’re going to make much progress on this question here. We’ll come back to this topic in future posts. Thanks. Adam