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	<title>Comments on: General Conference V:  A New Kind of Hymnal</title>
	<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/</link>
	<description>Faith, Morality, and Politics in a Black and White World</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Canopus</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Canopus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 22:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-416</guid>
		<description>Jimslightom, I must have been sitting beside you last Sunday!  I grew up in a quaint old sect  that still sings with old-fashioned shaped notes.  I haven't heard anyone else at COR singing parts. But the dude beside me last Sunday knew all the bass parts to all the songs.   I was 99 percent sure he had a passing acquaintance with that sect!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimslightom, I must have been sitting beside you last Sunday!  I grew up in a quaint old sect  that still sings with old-fashioned shaped notes.  I haven&#8217;t heard anyone else at COR singing parts. But the dude beside me last Sunday knew all the bass parts to all the songs.   I was 99 percent sure he had a passing acquaintance with that sect!</p>
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		<title>By: cegraines</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>cegraines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 09:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-391</guid>
		<description>Sorry to be the fuddy-duddy that's stuck in the 1st century, but I am 32 years old and love a book hymnal.  I like writing notes in my hymnal like which hymns were sung at my friend's funerals.  I have a hymnal from when I was a US-2 and all my classmates signed it.  I take the hymnal camping with me and I sing in my sleeping bag under the stars.  Can you project words onto the night sky?  Maybe you can zap them onto Half Dome when I'm going through Yosemite.  Also, what about when electricity fails?  Finally, isn't there something inherently odd about going to church to watch TV?  And God forbid the days I am called to serve a church with canned music or pastel cotton-candy screensavers blocking the altar.  Few things nauseate more than the notion of iHymns.  As a gadget-head that loves his iPod, I need church to give me a reality check on technology.  It is not the gospel itself and it is bad theology to think that projected lyrics will somehow save the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to be the fuddy-duddy that&#8217;s stuck in the 1st century, but I am 32 years old and love a book hymnal.  I like writing notes in my hymnal like which hymns were sung at my friend&#8217;s funerals.  I have a hymnal from when I was a US-2 and all my classmates signed it.  I take the hymnal camping with me and I sing in my sleeping bag under the stars.  Can you project words onto the night sky?  Maybe you can zap them onto Half Dome when I&#8217;m going through Yosemite.  Also, what about when electricity fails?  Finally, isn&#8217;t there something inherently odd about going to church to watch TV?  And God forbid the days I am called to serve a church with canned music or pastel cotton-candy screensavers blocking the altar.  Few things nauseate more than the notion of iHymns.  As a gadget-head that loves his iPod, I need church to give me a reality check on technology.  It is not the gospel itself and it is bad theology to think that projected lyrics will somehow save the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 23:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-378</guid>
		<description>Hi Kab,

The (new) hymnal [old-fashion-printed type] passed at the conference 57% to 43% -- money is now being used to publish and sale a printed hymnal book for the year 2014. 

By 2014, technology will be so economically feasible for every church to have a media system.  At COR during traditional services now -- very few people use hymnal books they look at the screens.  African countries will never use English hymnals.

I would much rather see funds used in other directions to bring people to Christ than having a book collecting dust in the back of a pew. Adam is saying that this (2014) hymnal book will be the last of it's kind because we'll be using something similar to ITunes ....   which will happen before 2014  ....  That's why the book will be obsolete and funds wasted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kab,</p>
<p>The (new) hymnal [old-fashion-printed type] passed at the conference 57% to 43% &#8212; money is now being used to publish and sale a printed hymnal book for the year 2014. </p>
<p>By 2014, technology will be so economically feasible for every church to have a media system.  At COR during traditional services now &#8212; very few people use hymnal books they look at the screens.  African countries will never use English hymnals.</p>
<p>I would much rather see funds used in other directions to bring people to Christ than having a book collecting dust in the back of a pew. Adam is saying that this (2014) hymnal book will be the last of it&#8217;s kind because we&#8217;ll be using something similar to ITunes &#8230;.   which will happen before 2014  &#8230;.  That&#8217;s why the book will be obsolete and funds wasted.</p>
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		<title>By: kab</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-377</link>
		<dc:creator>kab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 20:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-377</guid>
		<description>Hi Linda,

Although I think Adam was referring more to a new kind of hymnal he notes above, "But the real “new” hymnal will not be a book at all. It will be a website, like iTunes (”iHymns”?) that will sell hymn rights on line for 99 cents per hymn. These will be downloadable pre-designed graphic files with the words to the songs to show on video screens, chord charts, orchestration and accompaniment scores for a variety of instruments. You’ll be able to listen to each hymn or praise song and download mp3 files to be played on keyboards and organs for those churches that cannot afford their own musicians," I would offer that it will still be a long time until printed and bound versions will truly be outdated.  I have worshipped at Resurrection numerous times, and found both printed and electronic (i.e. projected) meda used simultaneously and effectively.  For those who like the "geriatric" version (I am one of these, even though I don't sip Geritol or lean on a cane)COR stocks those in the seatbacks.  For those who connect best by reading the words on the screen (a freer form of worship, IMO), COR's multimedia worship is powerful.

Can it truly be said that printed volumes are a waste of money?  If they connect to the peoplw who use them, I feel the old style hymnals are worth the price.  Additionally, printed and bound hymnals provide a lasting resource to older and still beautiful traditions and hymns that remain accessible for ages.  As a pastor, I collect old hymnals and books of worship, discovering quite often a perfect new expression of praise for God - in a book once thought outdated, outmoded, and outcast.

We all connect in different ways.  Since what is at stake is connecting to God, can it be said that any media is wasteful?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Linda,</p>
<p>Although I think Adam was referring more to a new kind of hymnal he notes above, &#8220;But the real “new” hymnal will not be a book at all. It will be a website, like iTunes (”iHymns”?) that will sell hymn rights on line for 99 cents per hymn. These will be downloadable pre-designed graphic files with the words to the songs to show on video screens, chord charts, orchestration and accompaniment scores for a variety of instruments. You’ll be able to listen to each hymn or praise song and download mp3 files to be played on keyboards and organs for those churches that cannot afford their own musicians,&#8221; I would offer that it will still be a long time until printed and bound versions will truly be outdated.  I have worshipped at Resurrection numerous times, and found both printed and electronic (i.e. projected) meda used simultaneously and effectively.  For those who like the &#8220;geriatric&#8221; version (I am one of these, even though I don&#8217;t sip Geritol or lean on a cane)COR stocks those in the seatbacks.  For those who connect best by reading the words on the screen (a freer form of worship, IMO), COR&#8217;s multimedia worship is powerful.</p>
<p>Can it truly be said that printed volumes are a waste of money?  If they connect to the peoplw who use them, I feel the old style hymnals are worth the price.  Additionally, printed and bound hymnals provide a lasting resource to older and still beautiful traditions and hymns that remain accessible for ages.  As a pastor, I collect old hymnals and books of worship, discovering quite often a perfect new expression of praise for God - in a book once thought outdated, outmoded, and outcast.</p>
<p>We all connect in different ways.  Since what is at stake is connecting to God, can it be said that any media is wasteful?</p>
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		<title>By: jimslightom</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-376</link>
		<dc:creator>jimslightom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 20:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-376</guid>
		<description>All the comments so far have merit, and should be considered.  However, something I miss, by just having the words only on a screen,is the musical notes to refer to when trying to sing. I would guess that a fair percentage of the congregation can read music, because many have either played a musical instrument or participated in a choir or musical group in the past.

I like to sing the bass part, and the only time the musical notes are made available is when we sing a hymn from the hymnal.  Even the notes for the melody are never shown on the screen, so we fumble through new songs until they are sung several times, because we are not sure of the rhythm or we can't find the proper notes. The people who attend less often may feel a little left out when most of the congregation have learned the songs by rote and they don't know them.

We don't necessarily need hymnals, but I would like to see more music with the notes made available on the screen. We seem to be losing our abilities to sing anything but the melody, and even with just the melody being sung we often don't get it quite right without some musical notes to refer to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the comments so far have merit, and should be considered.  However, something I miss, by just having the words only on a screen,is the musical notes to refer to when trying to sing. I would guess that a fair percentage of the congregation can read music, because many have either played a musical instrument or participated in a choir or musical group in the past.</p>
<p>I like to sing the bass part, and the only time the musical notes are made available is when we sing a hymn from the hymnal.  Even the notes for the melody are never shown on the screen, so we fumble through new songs until they are sung several times, because we are not sure of the rhythm or we can&#8217;t find the proper notes. The people who attend less often may feel a little left out when most of the congregation have learned the songs by rote and they don&#8217;t know them.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t necessarily need hymnals, but I would like to see more music with the notes made available on the screen. We seem to be losing our abilities to sing anything but the melody, and even with just the melody being sung we often don&#8217;t get it quite right without some musical notes to refer to.</p>
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		<title>By: Wesleyite</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-372</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesleyite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 14:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-372</guid>
		<description>Part of the decline in the UMC in this country is that people are going to less old-fashion churches.  The hymnal while great, may not be the most pressing thing the GC needed to address.  I'd much rather our denomination spend time and resources preaching the saving message of the Gospel so that souls might be saved.

Also a survey was done concerning this hymnal in which some people wanted gender to be changed when addressing God.  We see God the father mentioned as "He" throughout scripture and Jesus Himself even does so, to address God as "mother" or "she" is ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the decline in the UMC in this country is that people are going to less old-fashion churches.  The hymnal while great, may not be the most pressing thing the GC needed to address.  I&#8217;d much rather our denomination spend time and resources preaching the saving message of the Gospel so that souls might be saved.</p>
<p>Also a survey was done concerning this hymnal in which some people wanted gender to be changed when addressing God.  We see God the father mentioned as &#8220;He&#8221; throughout scripture and Jesus Himself even does so, to address God as &#8220;mother&#8221; or &#8220;she&#8221; is ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-370</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 05:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-370</guid>
		<description>What a complete waste of funds!  I would like to know the $$$ allocated to getting these all-ready-outdated hymnals published for 2014 (+) and how much COR plans on spending to buy them.  I hope Adam has not committed to buying a ton, in about 5 years published hymnals will be dinosaurs with all the new technology.  Who voted ... geatrics that never have heard of a MP3? Wow, I thought UMC was more forward-thinking.  Disappointing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a complete waste of funds!  I would like to know the $$$ allocated to getting these all-ready-outdated hymnals published for 2014 (+) and how much COR plans on spending to buy them.  I hope Adam has not committed to buying a ton, in about 5 years published hymnals will be dinosaurs with all the new technology.  Who voted &#8230; geatrics that never have heard of a MP3? Wow, I thought UMC was more forward-thinking.  Disappointing.</p>
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		<title>By: davepullin</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>davepullin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 04:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-369</guid>
		<description>I think it is very interesting seeing how close the vote was. The way I interpret that is there are still a lot of churches who regularly utilize the current hymnal in printed form and it seems it is a regular part of their identity as a form of worship. 

I think that the way people express worship to God is such an innate part of how we define ourselves as individuals and communities of faith, that when people start discussing changing or altering that preferred style or method of expression, there is great resistance to that change. And I can appreciate that resistance.

For this topic, I feel we need to think broadly about how to meet the various needs of all of our communities be it a printed hymnal, downloadable mp3s, open source song &#38; liturgy writing, charts &#38; orchestrations, etc. I think what we could see in the future is a mix of what both Adam &#38; Taylor speak of.

I think that flexibility is critical for the success of another hymnal. It could be a website that offers a congregation to create/assemble their own hymnal online, choosing music &#38; liturgies that speak to their specific congregation...then it gets printed and shipped (or downloaded &#38; taken to a local printer). There could be a variety of compilations (the entire hymnal, classics, contemporary, alternative, multiple languages and cultural expressions,etc). the options are limitless.

Then those that don't use printed hymnals can use the part of the site offering the downloads. Local songwriters can submit their music for inclusion (with charts, mp3s, lyrics for display). Liturgies &#38; music written by congregation members can be shared effortlessly across the globe as well as maintaining the rich history of the current hymnal. 

There could be an open source songwriting forum, where songwriters can collaborate &#38; upload mp3s of each other's works.

Worship leaders &#38; musicians could share their worship orders and upload video of some of the things they've tried. It becomes more than a hymnal site, but a worship site.

Today music is rarely being distributed by print or cd...the trends are all pointing towards download. I see this as a place where we as methodists can truly be innovative and take advantage of our connectional system. And since music is such a strong part of our heritage, it is a shame that we have not yet discovered an avenue to quickly and efficiently distribute the current works &#38; voices of the methodist people in addition to those that have already come before us.

thanks - 

Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is very interesting seeing how close the vote was. The way I interpret that is there are still a lot of churches who regularly utilize the current hymnal in printed form and it seems it is a regular part of their identity as a form of worship. </p>
<p>I think that the way people express worship to God is such an innate part of how we define ourselves as individuals and communities of faith, that when people start discussing changing or altering that preferred style or method of expression, there is great resistance to that change. And I can appreciate that resistance.</p>
<p>For this topic, I feel we need to think broadly about how to meet the various needs of all of our communities be it a printed hymnal, downloadable mp3s, open source song &amp; liturgy writing, charts &amp; orchestrations, etc. I think what we could see in the future is a mix of what both Adam &amp; Taylor speak of.</p>
<p>I think that flexibility is critical for the success of another hymnal. It could be a website that offers a congregation to create/assemble their own hymnal online, choosing music &amp; liturgies that speak to their specific congregation&#8230;then it gets printed and shipped (or downloaded &amp; taken to a local printer). There could be a variety of compilations (the entire hymnal, classics, contemporary, alternative, multiple languages and cultural expressions,etc). the options are limitless.</p>
<p>Then those that don&#8217;t use printed hymnals can use the part of the site offering the downloads. Local songwriters can submit their music for inclusion (with charts, mp3s, lyrics for display). Liturgies &amp; music written by congregation members can be shared effortlessly across the globe as well as maintaining the rich history of the current hymnal. </p>
<p>There could be an open source songwriting forum, where songwriters can collaborate &amp; upload mp3s of each other&#8217;s works.</p>
<p>Worship leaders &amp; musicians could share their worship orders and upload video of some of the things they&#8217;ve tried. It becomes more than a hymnal site, but a worship site.</p>
<p>Today music is rarely being distributed by print or cd&#8230;the trends are all pointing towards download. I see this as a place where we as methodists can truly be innovative and take advantage of our connectional system. And since music is such a strong part of our heritage, it is a shame that we have not yet discovered an avenue to quickly and efficiently distribute the current works &amp; voices of the methodist people in addition to those that have already come before us.</p>
<p>thanks - </p>
<p>Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Conard</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Conard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-368</guid>
		<description>Adam - Great idea. It seems like it would be an easy thing to organize and far more scalable than a published volume.

twbe - Thanks for sharing the vision. That looks like great stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam - Great idea. It seems like it would be an easy thing to organize and far more scalable than a published volume.</p>
<p>twbe - Thanks for sharing the vision. That looks like great stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: twbe</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-367</link>
		<dc:creator>twbe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:48:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/04/29/general-conference-v-a-new-kind-of-hymnal/#comment-367</guid>
		<description>Adam,

You and your readers may want to know about the engine we're building at GBOD to create a new kind of Book of Worship--- and one not just for United Methodists, for for Christians anywhere.

It's called the Open Source Liturgy Project. It's a way to generate ritual resources for the whole church-- or rather, a way for the whole church to generate, refine and share ritual resources-- that are solidly grounded in the best of Christian theology and worship practices, ecumenical in spirit, authentically indigenous, and as multi-cultural as the world is. And unlike the iHymns, this project will generate resources that are always available for free under copyright arrangements (the Creative Commons License) that allows for their reproduction for worship and educational uses.  

We're in the early stages now-- working at finishing the "kernel" for four major rites of the church (baptism, communion, marriage, death and resurrection). Once the "kernel" is tested ecumenically and among UM theologians, and refined accordingly, we'll start recruiting developers to build resources compatible with this kernel or core-- and hope to start seeing new resources available for testing and feedback (alpha release, to use the terminology from open source software development) as soon as the middle of 2009. 

Liturgy is, by definition, the work of the people-- not just the work of a few experts. The Open Source Liturgy Project takes that seriously in every way... and we hope becomes a way for all sorts of Christian bodies and people to develop, test, and refine Christian worship resources with the vitality of the local context and integrity with the deepest traditions of Christian worship and theology.

Peace in Christ,

Taylor Burton-Edwards, GBOD
(and also at the Blackstone where you're staying as well, Adam!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,</p>
<p>You and your readers may want to know about the engine we&#8217;re building at GBOD to create a new kind of Book of Worship&#8212; and one not just for United Methodists, for for Christians anywhere.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s called the Open Source Liturgy Project. It&#8217;s a way to generate ritual resources for the whole church&#8211; or rather, a way for the whole church to generate, refine and share ritual resources&#8211; that are solidly grounded in the best of Christian theology and worship practices, ecumenical in spirit, authentically indigenous, and as multi-cultural as the world is. And unlike the iHymns, this project will generate resources that are always available for free under copyright arrangements (the Creative Commons License) that allows for their reproduction for worship and educational uses.  </p>
<p>We&#8217;re in the early stages now&#8211; working at finishing the &#8220;kernel&#8221; for four major rites of the church (baptism, communion, marriage, death and resurrection). Once the &#8220;kernel&#8221; is tested ecumenically and among UM theologians, and refined accordingly, we&#8217;ll start recruiting developers to build resources compatible with this kernel or core&#8211; and hope to start seeing new resources available for testing and feedback (alpha release, to use the terminology from open source software development) as soon as the middle of 2009. </p>
<p>Liturgy is, by definition, the work of the people&#8211; not just the work of a few experts. The Open Source Liturgy Project takes that seriously in every way&#8230; and we hope becomes a way for all sorts of Christian bodies and people to develop, test, and refine Christian worship resources with the vitality of the local context and integrity with the deepest traditions of Christian worship and theology.</p>
<p>Peace in Christ,</p>
<p>Taylor Burton-Edwards, GBOD<br />
(and also at the Blackstone where you&#8217;re staying as well, Adam!)</p>
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