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	<title>Comments on: What is Seeing Gray?  Humility, Grace and Love</title>
	<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/</link>
	<description>Faith, Morality, and Politics in a Black and White World</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Sandy</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-301</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Tom.  Jesus is pretty clear about the path to Him being narrow...and just because there are Christians who choose to believe what the Bible says and believe that there are things that are wrong in God's eyes, does not mean we are not capable of complex thinking.  As a matter of fact, it is extremely difficult to have human feelings and temptations that encourage us to do what is wrong in His eyes and want to do right by Him.  It is much easier to rationalize the behavior by saying, "It's normal.  Everyone is doing it. People will think I'm judgmental if I say that this is wrong."  That doesn't take complex thinking skills.

A Christian who believes the Bible states that a particular behavior to be a sin has to then make a decision as to whether they are going to support God's Word, or "go with the flow".  I refuse to go with the flow.  I have been so blessed by God - I owe Him more than that.  There were many who "went with the flow" that Good Friday thousands of years ago.

It amazes me how quickly our society has accepted behaviors as "normal" when 30-50 yrs. ago, it would have been unheard of.  Nobody says anything (not even Adam, except to the kids) about the sin of living together or having sex before marriage - no matter what their age.  People are now told that homosexuality is "normal."  It seems to me, that the people who just accept that to be right are the ones who are not using complex thinking skills.  People think rationalizing abortion to be alright as long as it's because a woman was raped, the child wouldn't be "normal", or a young girl doesn't have the cognitive skills to make a good decision (that's what got her into that position in the first place - but her parents are there, then, and need to step in and do the right thing - not the easiest thing), etc... fails to remember that the Bible makes it clear that God makes the decisions regarding creation and death.  Miracles occur all the time. My children are both living proof of that. I am proof of that.  The decisions we or others make demand us to make further decisions...and making another sinful decision doesn't make the first one right.  When we find ourselves in difficult places, like Job, we are to lean on Him.  We are to accept that we are now in a bad spot - but there is nothing bad that God doesn't use for His good - in the long run.  The whole point is to trust Him to make it ok in the long run.  I had an unplanned pregnancy.  My physical (as well as emotional, financial, etc) life was at risk.  I was told I probably wouldn't make it and nor would my child.  He is attending K-State now on a full scholarship (not counting room and board).  

People have NO idea what one can gain from such an experience.  I KNOW He is good.  I KNOW I can trust Him to pull me out of the worst of times - like when I was later raped.  No - I didn't choose to have a "morning after pill".  If God meant for me to be pregnant - I would be - and then I would have to lean on Him even more to get through it. And, had I died?  I would be in heaven right now.  My children would know I made that choice because I put my life in His hands and trusted it to be what was best.  God does not allow us to be hurt (read Job) any more than He allows.  And, He doesn't allow us to be hurt without looking at what it means for our walk with Him in the long run.  What happens on earth is temporary...except for our relationship with Him.

I am not telling you these things to sound like I know it all - far from it.  The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.  But, I know, God knows it all.  He didn't give us these commandments with "except when...such and such...happens"  He knew we would think up rationalizations.  If He had wanted an exception to His commandment, He would have let us know.

The more I struggle, the more I realize God is in control of only what I give Him to be in control of.  "Surrender to His will", are not just words.  They are EVERYTHING. It is not for us to question His will.  But, we HAVE to be willing to let Him make our or someone else's bad decision work out for the good.

AND, please do not misunderstand me as to "judging" others.  I don't.  I'm just sharing with them what God has said and if I didn't care about their future walk with Him, I wouldn't bother.  If I didn't think God wanted me to write this right now (when I could be doing taxes, laundry, etc), I wouldn't take the time. Christians who tell it like it is are doing it because of our love for others.  I would never want the huge, inhuman, responsibility for judging anyone.  But, I do believe God called us to share the Truth. People may not (yet) kill us for sharing it here in the U.S., but we certainly get called plenty of negative things, we are told we can't think for ourselves, are not capable of seeing the grey (as if we haven't lived life ourselves and haven't made our own rationalizations), are being judgmental, and are being "hateful" to others who think differently from us. They say we don't accept everyone.  Let me speak for MANY Christians who have never said anything hateful to anyone - I do not believe God calls us to accept all BEHAVIORS.  But, I most certainly, as do many other Christians I know, accept them as no different than myself - a sinner. As a nurse, I have held women in my arms and cried with them when they shared what the abortion had done to them.  I have cared for women who had no regrets about their abortion and they had NO idea how I felt about it...because their care was just like the care I gave another woman.  I cared for the ones who were pregnant and addicted to all sorts of things. In one week, I saw one family choose to end a pregnancy where the baby was formed without a brain stem.  It was a painful, raw experience for EVERYONE involved. Across the hall, another family chose to have a C/S, so as not to harm the baby any further and for him not to have pain during childbirth. They were surrounded by their family and friends, praising God and singing worship songs when he was born alive (even though they knew he could not live without a brain stem). We all waited for him to die ... but he didn't.  Not that day. He actually nursed from his mom's breasts. We realized by the third day we would have to make arrangements for BOTH of them to go home. As we (the doctors and nurses) dealt with both families the same week, atthe same time, it was evident that this baby was loved, that they believed God sent him, and that they believed it was in His hands as to what would happen next.  This baby, despite all medical explanations, lived for over a month before he finally died.  I knew, then, without a doubt, that God had granted me the privaledge of caring for them because I (and others)needed to remember He created the life and He needed to be the One to take it.  There was also no doubt that this baby was a blessing in their lives.

  I have prayed with many and I have prayed for almost all.  I'm not saying this to make myself sound like something short of Mother Theresa.  The point is - many of us had many different feelings about our patients' behaviors, but, as Christian nurses who saw our profession as a ministry, we most certainly accepted all our patients, family members, etc. whose behaviors were not what we agreed with as much as those whose behaviors we did. I could see both sides of almost every situation. I'll bet I have done many things my kids, husband, etc. didn't agree with either - but they loved and accept me anyway... and thankfully, at times, they cared enough to say something.

That's all I'm saying ('sorry it's taken so long to get to that).  If you saw someone doing something that you felt (and that could be because you believe the Bible, because of your own experiences, because you grew up being taught a particular thing, etc) was hurtful to someone, if you at all care, you would tell them what you think... .

I realize there are some people who call themselves Christians, that are NOT acting in a way that would make God happy.  I would just pray that anyone who is speaking about these sensitive issues really examine whether they are being passionate about the behavior or the person, and what their motive is in speaking out.  There can be no good come from treating people badly in God's name.  Jesus gave us the ultimate commandment to love each other.  We need to come together, especially now, and do what is right in God's eyes.  Unfortunately, we are all sinners, so this will never be a perfect walk. But, we all need to pray that we hear His voice and that we do what He asks us to do, in a caring way.  

God created The Commandments to keep us from making mistakes that hurt us and others.  He wants more for us...and that takes prayer, discipline, and each other pulling each other up, to make those things He wants for us to happen.  I also pray that if someone is not sure about what they are hearing from God, that they pray about it, fervently, and ask to hear His voice ... to know, without a doubt, that when you say you believe God is big enough or kind enough or whatever...to accept a behavior that He has called a sin, and that it's ok to accept that behavior without consequence to your or another person's soul...that you are EXTREMELY sure you are right.  If you are not as clear as I am about knowing that it is NOT what God wants for any of us (sinful behavior), then you not share anything until you know for sure.  For example, I used to think abortion was wrong unless the woman was raped (and then, I was, and later, I met a Christian woman who was and her life was so blessed by the baby she chose to have), or malformed (and then I experienced the couple's love previously mentioned), or whose life was at stake (and mine was).  Now, I realize, there is NOTHING we cannot do without God...and He will make it ok in the long run.  Trust that. He knows it's painful to be in certain situations or born with certain handicaps (I use that term loosely).  He's just saying He is and will be there for you.  I PROMISE that He follows through.

Wishing you blessings in His Word,
Sandy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Tom.  Jesus is pretty clear about the path to Him being narrow&#8230;and just because there are Christians who choose to believe what the Bible says and believe that there are things that are wrong in God&#8217;s eyes, does not mean we are not capable of complex thinking.  As a matter of fact, it is extremely difficult to have human feelings and temptations that encourage us to do what is wrong in His eyes and want to do right by Him.  It is much easier to rationalize the behavior by saying, &#8220;It&#8217;s normal.  Everyone is doing it. People will think I&#8217;m judgmental if I say that this is wrong.&#8221;  That doesn&#8217;t take complex thinking skills.</p>
<p>A Christian who believes the Bible states that a particular behavior to be a sin has to then make a decision as to whether they are going to support God&#8217;s Word, or &#8220;go with the flow&#8221;.  I refuse to go with the flow.  I have been so blessed by God - I owe Him more than that.  There were many who &#8220;went with the flow&#8221; that Good Friday thousands of years ago.</p>
<p>It amazes me how quickly our society has accepted behaviors as &#8220;normal&#8221; when 30-50 yrs. ago, it would have been unheard of.  Nobody says anything (not even Adam, except to the kids) about the sin of living together or having sex before marriage - no matter what their age.  People are now told that homosexuality is &#8220;normal.&#8221;  It seems to me, that the people who just accept that to be right are the ones who are not using complex thinking skills.  People think rationalizing abortion to be alright as long as it&#8217;s because a woman was raped, the child wouldn&#8217;t be &#8220;normal&#8221;, or a young girl doesn&#8217;t have the cognitive skills to make a good decision (that&#8217;s what got her into that position in the first place - but her parents are there, then, and need to step in and do the right thing - not the easiest thing), etc&#8230; fails to remember that the Bible makes it clear that God makes the decisions regarding creation and death.  Miracles occur all the time. My children are both living proof of that. I am proof of that.  The decisions we or others make demand us to make further decisions&#8230;and making another sinful decision doesn&#8217;t make the first one right.  When we find ourselves in difficult places, like Job, we are to lean on Him.  We are to accept that we are now in a bad spot - but there is nothing bad that God doesn&#8217;t use for His good - in the long run.  The whole point is to trust Him to make it ok in the long run.  I had an unplanned pregnancy.  My physical (as well as emotional, financial, etc) life was at risk.  I was told I probably wouldn&#8217;t make it and nor would my child.  He is attending K-State now on a full scholarship (not counting room and board).  </p>
<p>People have NO idea what one can gain from such an experience.  I KNOW He is good.  I KNOW I can trust Him to pull me out of the worst of times - like when I was later raped.  No - I didn&#8217;t choose to have a &#8220;morning after pill&#8221;.  If God meant for me to be pregnant - I would be - and then I would have to lean on Him even more to get through it. And, had I died?  I would be in heaven right now.  My children would know I made that choice because I put my life in His hands and trusted it to be what was best.  God does not allow us to be hurt (read Job) any more than He allows.  And, He doesn&#8217;t allow us to be hurt without looking at what it means for our walk with Him in the long run.  What happens on earth is temporary&#8230;except for our relationship with Him.</p>
<p>I am not telling you these things to sound like I know it all - far from it.  The more I learn, the more I realize I don&#8217;t know.  But, I know, God knows it all.  He didn&#8217;t give us these commandments with &#8220;except when&#8230;such and such&#8230;happens&#8221;  He knew we would think up rationalizations.  If He had wanted an exception to His commandment, He would have let us know.</p>
<p>The more I struggle, the more I realize God is in control of only what I give Him to be in control of.  &#8220;Surrender to His will&#8221;, are not just words.  They are EVERYTHING. It is not for us to question His will.  But, we HAVE to be willing to let Him make our or someone else&#8217;s bad decision work out for the good.</p>
<p>AND, please do not misunderstand me as to &#8220;judging&#8221; others.  I don&#8217;t.  I&#8217;m just sharing with them what God has said and if I didn&#8217;t care about their future walk with Him, I wouldn&#8217;t bother.  If I didn&#8217;t think God wanted me to write this right now (when I could be doing taxes, laundry, etc), I wouldn&#8217;t take the time. Christians who tell it like it is are doing it because of our love for others.  I would never want the huge, inhuman, responsibility for judging anyone.  But, I do believe God called us to share the Truth. People may not (yet) kill us for sharing it here in the U.S., but we certainly get called plenty of negative things, we are told we can&#8217;t think for ourselves, are not capable of seeing the grey (as if we haven&#8217;t lived life ourselves and haven&#8217;t made our own rationalizations), are being judgmental, and are being &#8220;hateful&#8221; to others who think differently from us. They say we don&#8217;t accept everyone.  Let me speak for MANY Christians who have never said anything hateful to anyone - I do not believe God calls us to accept all BEHAVIORS.  But, I most certainly, as do many other Christians I know, accept them as no different than myself - a sinner. As a nurse, I have held women in my arms and cried with them when they shared what the abortion had done to them.  I have cared for women who had no regrets about their abortion and they had NO idea how I felt about it&#8230;because their care was just like the care I gave another woman.  I cared for the ones who were pregnant and addicted to all sorts of things. In one week, I saw one family choose to end a pregnancy where the baby was formed without a brain stem.  It was a painful, raw experience for EVERYONE involved. Across the hall, another family chose to have a C/S, so as not to harm the baby any further and for him not to have pain during childbirth. They were surrounded by their family and friends, praising God and singing worship songs when he was born alive (even though they knew he could not live without a brain stem). We all waited for him to die &#8230; but he didn&#8217;t.  Not that day. He actually nursed from his mom&#8217;s breasts. We realized by the third day we would have to make arrangements for BOTH of them to go home. As we (the doctors and nurses) dealt with both families the same week, atthe same time, it was evident that this baby was loved, that they believed God sent him, and that they believed it was in His hands as to what would happen next.  This baby, despite all medical explanations, lived for over a month before he finally died.  I knew, then, without a doubt, that God had granted me the privaledge of caring for them because I (and others)needed to remember He created the life and He needed to be the One to take it.  There was also no doubt that this baby was a blessing in their lives.</p>
<p>  I have prayed with many and I have prayed for almost all.  I&#8217;m not saying this to make myself sound like something short of Mother Theresa.  The point is - many of us had many different feelings about our patients&#8217; behaviors, but, as Christian nurses who saw our profession as a ministry, we most certainly accepted all our patients, family members, etc. whose behaviors were not what we agreed with as much as those whose behaviors we did. I could see both sides of almost every situation. I&#8217;ll bet I have done many things my kids, husband, etc. didn&#8217;t agree with either - but they loved and accept me anyway&#8230; and thankfully, at times, they cared enough to say something.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s all I&#8217;m saying (&#8217;sorry it&#8217;s taken so long to get to that).  If you saw someone doing something that you felt (and that could be because you believe the Bible, because of your own experiences, because you grew up being taught a particular thing, etc) was hurtful to someone, if you at all care, you would tell them what you think&#8230; .</p>
<p>I realize there are some people who call themselves Christians, that are NOT acting in a way that would make God happy.  I would just pray that anyone who is speaking about these sensitive issues really examine whether they are being passionate about the behavior or the person, and what their motive is in speaking out.  There can be no good come from treating people badly in God&#8217;s name.  Jesus gave us the ultimate commandment to love each other.  We need to come together, especially now, and do what is right in God&#8217;s eyes.  Unfortunately, we are all sinners, so this will never be a perfect walk. But, we all need to pray that we hear His voice and that we do what He asks us to do, in a caring way.  </p>
<p>God created The Commandments to keep us from making mistakes that hurt us and others.  He wants more for us&#8230;and that takes prayer, discipline, and each other pulling each other up, to make those things He wants for us to happen.  I also pray that if someone is not sure about what they are hearing from God, that they pray about it, fervently, and ask to hear His voice &#8230; to know, without a doubt, that when you say you believe God is big enough or kind enough or whatever&#8230;to accept a behavior that He has called a sin, and that it&#8217;s ok to accept that behavior without consequence to your or another person&#8217;s soul&#8230;that you are EXTREMELY sure you are right.  If you are not as clear as I am about knowing that it is NOT what God wants for any of us (sinful behavior), then you not share anything until you know for sure.  For example, I used to think abortion was wrong unless the woman was raped (and then, I was, and later, I met a Christian woman who was and her life was so blessed by the baby she chose to have), or malformed (and then I experienced the couple&#8217;s love previously mentioned), or whose life was at stake (and mine was).  Now, I realize, there is NOTHING we cannot do without God&#8230;and He will make it ok in the long run.  Trust that. He knows it&#8217;s painful to be in certain situations or born with certain handicaps (I use that term loosely).  He&#8217;s just saying He is and will be there for you.  I PROMISE that He follows through.</p>
<p>Wishing you blessings in His Word,<br />
Sandy</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-237</guid>
		<description>This gray trend seems like a cover for an anything goes attitude. You know there is nothing right, nothing wrong, everything is gray. If you read the gospels there are very, very clear standards spelled out there and throughout the rest of the bible. One needs not guess about what is right or wrong if they read the bible. The standards set out in the bible are very black and white, not gray. We lose what makes the Church special if we blend to make people feel comfortable. Then we become just another entertainment venue, not a method to change people's hearts and worlds. 

I didn't read the pew study but have read other similar studies. The religions that have very set standards are the religions and denominations which are growing. The gray denominations nation wide and world wide are usually the ones which see their membership numbers drop through the floor. If you look at what the church did over the past two thousand years it involved very clear standards, very clear direction. People didn't have to guess to see what shade of gray was out in the wind. For example the church in England in the 1800s was very clear about the harms of slavery. It was very clear about the harms of treating factory workers like dirt. Over time they pulled opinion to what was right. That caused the social action from changed hearts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This gray trend seems like a cover for an anything goes attitude. You know there is nothing right, nothing wrong, everything is gray. If you read the gospels there are very, very clear standards spelled out there and throughout the rest of the bible. One needs not guess about what is right or wrong if they read the bible. The standards set out in the bible are very black and white, not gray. We lose what makes the Church special if we blend to make people feel comfortable. Then we become just another entertainment venue, not a method to change people&#8217;s hearts and worlds. </p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t read the pew study but have read other similar studies. The religions that have very set standards are the religions and denominations which are growing. The gray denominations nation wide and world wide are usually the ones which see their membership numbers drop through the floor. If you look at what the church did over the past two thousand years it involved very clear standards, very clear direction. People didn&#8217;t have to guess to see what shade of gray was out in the wind. For example the church in England in the 1800s was very clear about the harms of slavery. It was very clear about the harms of treating factory workers like dirt. Over time they pulled opinion to what was right. That caused the social action from changed hearts.</p>
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		<title>By: David Quisenberry</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>David Quisenberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-229</guid>
		<description>There is an outstanding book which came out of extended research at the Harvard Negotiation Project.  The book is called "Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss what Matters Most"
by Douglas Stone,Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen, and Roger Fisher. It provides tremendously beneficial thoughts and suggestions to develop a "Thinking Grey" mindset.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an outstanding book which came out of extended research at the Harvard Negotiation Project.  The book is called &#8220;Difficult Conversations: How to Discuss what Matters Most&#8221;<br />
by Douglas Stone,Bruce Patton, Sheila Heen, and Roger Fisher. It provides tremendously beneficial thoughts and suggestions to develop a &#8220;Thinking Grey&#8221; mindset.</p>
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		<title>By: guymwilliams</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>guymwilliams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Seems like finding the right tension in which we can hold our positions with confidence and conviction, while at the same time exercising humility and a recognition that we could be wrong is best. These two attitudes--strong conviction and deep humility are hard to hold together in creative tension, but this is a "third way" in the tradition of Wesleyanism and Methodism that we ought to claim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems like finding the right tension in which we can hold our positions with confidence and conviction, while at the same time exercising humility and a recognition that we could be wrong is best. These two attitudes&#8211;strong conviction and deep humility are hard to hold together in creative tension, but this is a &#8220;third way&#8221; in the tradition of Wesleyanism and Methodism that we ought to claim.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopheriliff</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopheriliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Adam, I agree with everything in your comment.  But if this is your definition of “Seeing Gray” then it seems to me you may have missed the mark in your last sermon on the topic.  You started with Jeremiah’s warning that the Lord will destroy the palace if the King and people don’t obey the Lord’s commands.  Then, you give your list of current political issues which you suggest are the one’s the Lord will judge us for.  In doing this, you took a page directly from the Religious Right’s playbook, first by politicizing complicated policy issues, and then implicitly damning those who disagree.    In the public square, what we need is civility based on arguments that appeal to everyone’s sense of reason and fairness, invoking history, tradition, economics and political principal.  When we use the Old Testament to flog those who see things differently, we weaken our theology as well as our moral voice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, I agree with everything in your comment.  But if this is your definition of “Seeing Gray” then it seems to me you may have missed the mark in your last sermon on the topic.  You started with Jeremiah’s warning that the Lord will destroy the palace if the King and people don’t obey the Lord’s commands.  Then, you give your list of current political issues which you suggest are the one’s the Lord will judge us for.  In doing this, you took a page directly from the Religious Right’s playbook, first by politicizing complicated policy issues, and then implicitly damning those who disagree.    In the public square, what we need is civility based on arguments that appeal to everyone’s sense of reason and fairness, invoking history, tradition, economics and political principal.  When we use the Old Testament to flog those who see things differently, we weaken our theology as well as our moral voice.</p>
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		<title>By: tr</title>
		<link>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>tr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 18:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/26/what-is-seeing-gray-humility-grace-and-love/#comment-223</guid>
		<description>That is so well said.  If all churches and religions could hear this message, and live this message...I wonder what the world would look like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is so well said.  If all churches and religions could hear this message, and live this message&#8230;I wonder what the world would look like.</p>
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