Comments on: Liberals and Conservatives http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/ Faith, Morality, and Politics in a Black and White World Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:59:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: tk http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-206 tk Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:14:49 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-206 To anyone who does not believe in the responsibility and need for our government to have supportive programs, please explore the world around you! Do missions work in KC or abroad and get to know the people! Find a single mother of 3 whose husband is deceased and she cannot afford the childcare that working would require. That's here in JOCO. Befriend a South African woman caring for 10 children whose parents have died of AIDS and she doesn't know how she will feed them all much less afford their school fees. The church cannot help as everyone else is in her same situation but she knows God will provide and sings praises for the blessings she has. Talk to the mother of a young man who has been diagnosed with a medical condition that costs over $100k dollars per month for prescriptions that are not covered by the private insurance. Should his children go hungry so their father can live? If you have a better way, by all means, please share it with the world. Otherwise, don't knock it until you've lived it. Our pastors, and many of our members, talk with these people on a daily basis and know their pain and often go above and beyond to help them because of the gaps in the system but the church cannot do it all! To anyone who does not believe in the responsibility and need for our government to have supportive programs, please explore the world around you! Do missions work in KC or abroad and get to know the people! Find a single mother of 3 whose husband is deceased and she cannot afford the childcare that working would require. That’s here in JOCO. Befriend a South African woman caring for 10 children whose parents have died of AIDS and she doesn’t know how she will feed them all much less afford their school fees. The church cannot help as everyone else is in her same situation but she knows God will provide and sings praises for the blessings she has. Talk to the mother of a young man who has been diagnosed with a medical condition that costs over $100k dollars per month for prescriptions that are not covered by the private insurance. Should his children go hungry so their father can live? If you have a better way, by all means, please share it with the world. Otherwise, don’t knock it until you’ve lived it. Our pastors, and many of our members, talk with these people on a daily basis and know their pain and often go above and beyond to help them because of the gaps in the system but the church cannot do it all!

]]> By: Northstar http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-204 Northstar Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:26:52 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-204 Blog Poster, Tr didn't mention the standard that Jesus sets, and neither did I. I'm just saying that we have to judge ourselves and not others in regard to spending. I believe Adam addressed this in one of his sermons..the very topic was looking at others and judging what they have without knowing the first thing about them. Just for the record, I don't drive an expensive car and I don't live in a huge house...oh, and I have had a compassion child for the last 12 years, her name was Hannah and she was from Ethiopia...she died this Christmas...she was 16. And as far as the "eye of the needle" scripture...I think Jesus was saying that it is impossible for anyone...rich or poor...to get into heaven through their own efforts....even if I give everything to the poor, and my body to be burned...if I don't have love, I gain nothing. Blog Poster, Tr didn’t mention the standard that Jesus sets, and neither did I. I’m just saying that we have to judge ourselves and not others in regard to spending. I believe Adam addressed this in one of his sermons..the very topic was looking at others and judging what they have without knowing the first thing about them. Just for the record, I don’t drive an expensive car and I don’t live in a huge house…oh, and I have had a compassion child for the last 12 years, her name was Hannah and she was from Ethiopia…she died this Christmas…she was 16. And as far as the “eye of the needle” scripture…I think Jesus was saying that it is impossible for anyone…rich or poor…to get into heaven through their own efforts….even if I give everything to the poor, and my body to be burned…if I don’t have love, I gain nothing.

]]> By: Blog Poster http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-203 Blog Poster Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:58:05 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-203 I agree with you TR, I struggle with - for example - the number of luxury cars we have in our parking lot. I can't imagine Jesus wouldn't come down pretty hard on us for buying something just so people will go wow look at what they got - while the world is starving. I'm guessing that if ever Lexus owner and BMW owner sold their cars and downgraded to a Toyota - and all that money was given to organizations like compassion, we might make a major dent in world hunger. Northstar - I think Jesus' standard was something like - everything - give away all you have to the poor and come and follow me. Tough challenge but i don't think he was joking when he said its harder for the rich to enter the Kingdom of Heaven - than for a Camel to go through the eye of a needle. Thats my two cents. I agree with you TR, I struggle with - for example - the number of luxury cars we have in our parking lot. I can’t imagine Jesus wouldn’t come down pretty hard on us for buying something just so people will go wow look at what they got - while the world is starving. I’m guessing that if ever Lexus owner and BMW owner sold their cars and downgraded to a Toyota - and all that money was given to organizations like compassion, we might make a major dent in world hunger.

Northstar - I think Jesus’ standard was something like - everything - give away all you have to the poor and come and follow me. Tough challenge but i don’t think he was joking when he said its harder for the rich to enter the Kingdom of Heaven - than for a Camel to go through the eye of a needle. Thats my two cents.

]]> By: Northstar http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-202 Northstar Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:17:35 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-202 Tr, the path of your thoughts scares me. Where will you end up? How much will you have to give in order to not "feel" a struggle about spending? What does being aware of the suffering have to do with spending? If you judge yourself, then you won't have to be judged by God. But if you judge others...watch out, it will be the measure of how you are judged. Tr, the path of your thoughts scares me. Where will you end up? How much will you have to give in order to not “feel” a struggle about spending? What does being aware of the suffering have to do with spending? If you judge yourself, then you won’t have to be judged by God. But if you judge others…watch out, it will be the measure of how you are judged.

]]> By: tr http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-201 tr Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:04:20 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-201 Thank God for Pastor Hamilton. God has given him a gift and he is using it in a wonderful way to draw people to God and to challenge people to go deeper in their faith. I have a question. I read Adams remark about helping an illegal immigrant in need with food or clothing. And I agree with him. My question is how do we as Christians justify our spending when we are aware of the suffering in the world. Isn't it almost the same as seeing someone in need and than turning our back and going out to a nice expensive dinner. I have spent a lot of time in Mexico and Central America the last several years. And I always struggle with this.(in my own spending as well) In a sermon a couple of weeks ago it was mentioned that 30,000 children die a day of starvation. Shouldn't we as Christians, at the very least, really struggle with our spending when we are aware of the suffering? Thank God for Pastor Hamilton. God has given him a gift and he is using it in a wonderful way to draw people to God and to challenge people to go deeper in their faith.

I have a question. I read Adams remark about helping an illegal immigrant in need with food or clothing. And I agree with him. My question is how do we as Christians justify our spending when we are aware of the suffering in the world. Isn’t it almost the same as seeing someone in need and than turning our back and going out to a nice expensive dinner. I have spent a lot of time in Mexico and Central America the last several years. And I always struggle with this.(in my own spending as well) In a sermon a couple of weeks ago it was mentioned that 30,000 children die a day of starvation. Shouldn’t we as Christians, at the very least, really struggle with our spending when we are aware of the suffering?

]]> By: renewal http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-200 renewal Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:39:14 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-200 Adam, Thank you for not shying away from contreversial issues, and for challenging us, the congregation, to think and pray and come to our own conclusions. Partially because of your challenge from the pulpit, I participated in a Kansas caucus. Besides looking at our country's spending, I am glad you continue to invite us to look at our own. How can we as individuals and as a nation make the best use of our God given gifts, resources, knowledge, experience? I have just finished reading and highly recommend Bishop Desmond Tutu's book, "God Has a Dream: A Vision of Hope for Our Time." He is one of a group of 14 (also including Nelson Mandela and Jimmy Carter) called The Elders who are serving as global conflict mediators. On their website, I invite you to sign the Universal declaration of human rights http://www.everyhumanhasrights.org/sign_up/ I was also touched hearing Zanib Salbi speak at a conference this fall regarding her work with women war crime victims. COR has many great ministries partnering with others in different parts of the city and the world. I raised my children in a lake community East of Kansas City. To come "into town", we drove past much more modest homes. One of my children, as a preschooler, asked, "who lives in those houses?" My reply: "90% of the world wishes they could live in that type of house." Let's really look beyond ourselves and our comfy little part of the world when we ask: How can we as individuals and as a nation make the best use of our God given gifts, resources, knowledge, experience? Adam,

Thank you for not shying away from contreversial issues, and for challenging us, the congregation, to think and pray and come to our own conclusions. Partially because of your challenge from the pulpit, I participated in a Kansas caucus.

Besides looking at our country’s spending, I am glad you continue to invite us to look at our own. How can we as individuals and as a nation make the best use of our God given gifts, resources, knowledge, experience?

I have just finished reading and highly recommend Bishop Desmond Tutu’s book, “God Has a Dream: A Vision of Hope for Our Time.” He is one of a group of 14 (also including Nelson Mandela and Jimmy Carter) called The Elders who are serving as global conflict mediators. On their website, I invite you to sign the Universal declaration of human rights http://www.everyhumanhasrights.org/sign_up/

I was also touched hearing Zanib Salbi speak at a conference this fall regarding her work with women war crime victims. COR has many great ministries partnering with others in different parts of the city and the world.

I raised my children in a lake community East of Kansas City. To come “into town”, we drove past much more modest homes. One of my children, as a preschooler, asked, “who lives in those houses?” My reply: “90% of the world wishes they could live in that type of house.”

Let’s really look beyond ourselves and our comfy little part of the world when we ask: How can we as individuals and as a nation make the best use of our God given gifts, resources, knowledge, experience?

]]> By: adam http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-199 adam Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:33:21 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-199 Lonestar, I wanted to give a response to your question about the size of Resurrection and its continued growth. You wrote, "What’s wrong with the size of the church now? Why does it have to get bigger; surely not to be able to say we’re the biggest. Is having a lot of “stuff” or “property” really what being a UM is all about?" The first time someone asked me, "what's wrong with our size now, why do we have to be bigger?" was when we had 100 people per weekend in worship. Had we stopped inviting people and stopped making room for people then, and remained a church of 100, what would NOT have happened? Who would NOT have been reached? What programs, ministries, or acts of service to those in need would never have occurred had we felt that we were "big enough" and stopped having a passion for reaching out to new people? Our aim is not to grow simply for the sake of growing, nor is having more "stuff" or "property" our aim - our aim is to pursue our mission - which is to reach out to non-religious and nominally religious people and to invite them to follow Christ. Last Sunday 297 people did just that in joining the church, making their profession of faith in Christ. It was a joy to talk with a number of them and to hear their stories of how their lives had been enriched and changed by attending our church. There were many who, for the first time in their lives, were choosing to become followers of Christ. I think our leaders are clear that we're not pursuing growth in order to boast about our size, or to become bigger for the sake of becoming bigger. At issue is whether there are people who don't know Christ, and people who don't have a church home, who might visit our church, meet Christ here, and find a congregation that welcomes them. Regarding building, we don't plan to build a larger sanctuary until we need it - again, the aim is not to build a bigger sanctuary. The aim is to make sure that when you invite your unchurched friends or children, there is a place for them. Currently we have empty seats most weekends, hence no need to build our permanent sanctuary yet. In addition we're now sending people from our church to help start or reinvigorate other churches, which helps make room in our current sanctuary. But if the day comes when we no longer have empty seats (which we think could happen around 2012) then we'll build a larger sanctuary. Buildings are only tools for ministry. Reaching people is our aim, and if we forget this we would stop being a church and would instead be a religious country club. Jesus said he came "to seek and to save those who are lost" (Luke 19:10) and he told us to "go and make disciples" (Matthew 28:19). You hit a bit of a nerve with me, Lonestar - evangelism and reaching people for Christ is what drives me in ministry. It is the reason I serve this church. If, as a congregation, we stopped valuing this, it would be time for me to move on to another congregation. Okay, I've done more commenting on this thread of comments than I intended. My aim is to invite the rest of you into conversation, not for me to be doing all the responding. So, I'll sign off on this particular thread, but I'd like to invite the rest of you to jump into the conversation. Lonestar, thanks for raising these questions - I hope these answers are helpful. Blessings! Adam Lonestar, I wanted to give a response to your question about the size of Resurrection and its continued growth. You wrote, “What’s wrong with the size of the church now? Why does it have to get bigger; surely not to be able to say we’re the biggest. Is having a lot of “stuff” or “property” really what being a UM is all about?” The first time someone asked me, “what’s wrong with our size now, why do we have to be bigger?” was when we had 100 people per weekend in worship. Had we stopped inviting people and stopped making room for people then, and remained a church of 100, what would NOT have happened? Who would NOT have been reached? What programs, ministries, or acts of service to those in need would never have occurred had we felt that we were “big enough” and stopped having a passion for reaching out to new people? Our aim is not to grow simply for the sake of growing, nor is having more “stuff” or “property” our aim - our aim is to pursue our mission - which is to reach out to non-religious and nominally religious people and to invite them to follow Christ. Last Sunday 297 people did just that in joining the church, making their profession of faith in Christ. It was a joy to talk with a number of them and to hear their stories of how their lives had been enriched and changed by attending our church. There were many who, for the first time in their lives, were choosing to become followers of Christ. I think our leaders are clear that we’re not pursuing growth in order to boast about our size, or to become bigger for the sake of becoming bigger. At issue is whether there are people who don’t know Christ, and people who don’t have a church home, who might visit our church, meet Christ here, and find a congregation that welcomes them. Regarding building, we don’t plan to build a larger sanctuary until we need it - again, the aim is not to build a bigger sanctuary. The aim is to make sure that when you invite your unchurched friends or children, there is a place for them. Currently we have empty seats most weekends, hence no need to build our permanent sanctuary yet. In addition we’re now sending people from our church to help start or reinvigorate other churches, which helps make room in our current sanctuary. But if the day comes when we no longer have empty seats (which we think could happen around 2012) then we’ll build a larger sanctuary. Buildings are only tools for ministry. Reaching people is our aim, and if we forget this we would stop being a church and would instead be a religious country club. Jesus said he came “to seek and to save those who are lost” (Luke 19:10) and he told us to “go and make disciples” (Matthew 28:19). You hit a bit of a nerve with me, Lonestar - evangelism and reaching people for Christ is what drives me in ministry. It is the reason I serve this church. If, as a congregation, we stopped valuing this, it would be time for me to move on to another congregation. Okay, I’ve done more commenting on this thread of comments than I intended. My aim is to invite the rest of you into conversation, not for me to be doing all the responding. So, I’ll sign off on this particular thread, but I’d like to invite the rest of you to jump into the conversation. Lonestar, thanks for raising these questions - I hope these answers are helpful. Blessings! Adam

]]> By: rkeeper http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-198 rkeeper Thu, 14 Feb 2008 04:09:52 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-198 I want to start by saying the military, government spending and liberal beliefs make me feel like someone is driving nails in my back, so I react a little differently than I want. I really appreciate the way God is using you in our community, the effort you put in to your messages and your dedication to the church. The information about US private foreign aid was on the following website: www.america.gov/st/foraid-english/2007/May/20070524165115zjsredna0.2997553.html The america.gov website is sponsored by the US State Department. I really agree with our need to help people. I am challenged when a large segment of believers think the best way to accomplish our mission is to increase a secular agency's responsibility for determining how to do it, how much to give and who should receive it. The greatness of our democracy is that the federal government was intended to have limited authority and that individual states rights were to be protected. Taxation is out of control and proposed increases in federal programs will demand more taxes. I remember reading that one of the founding fathers said that this democracy will fail when those who have less learn that they can vote in to office representatives who will take from those who have more and give it to them. Pretty interesting thought 200+ years before it happened. What a positive/powerful message for Christ (and the church today) if we had the additional resources to dedicate to truly helping those in need. Wouldn't it be a great witness if the church and believers were identified as the face of America and not our government? I want to start by saying the military, government spending and liberal beliefs make me feel like someone is driving nails in my back, so I react a little differently than I want. I really appreciate the way God is using you in our community, the effort you put in to your messages and your dedication to the church.

The information about US private foreign aid was on the following website:
www.america.gov/st/foraid-english/2007/May/20070524165115zjsredna0.2997553.html

The america.gov website is sponsored by the US State Department.

I really agree with our need to help people. I am challenged when a large segment of believers think the best way to accomplish our mission is to increase a secular agency’s responsibility for determining how to do it, how much to give and who should receive it. The greatness of our democracy is that the federal government was intended to have limited authority and that individual states rights were to be protected. Taxation is out of control and proposed increases in federal programs will demand more taxes. I remember reading that one of the founding fathers said that this democracy will fail when those who have less learn that they can vote in to office representatives who will take from those who have more and give it to them. Pretty interesting thought 200+ years before it happened. What a positive/powerful message for Christ (and the church today) if we had the additional resources to dedicate to truly helping those in need. Wouldn’t it be a great witness if the church and believers were identified as the face of America and not our government?

]]> By: lonestar http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-197 lonestar Thu, 14 Feb 2008 03:24:07 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-197 Thanks, Adam; you asked if I would feed someone who was starving regardless of their immigration status - of course I would and I believe all Christians would. However, if I found they were illegal, I would notify the appropriate authorities so that our laws would be enforced. To continue to knowingly violate our laws and harbor illegals, as some churchs have in the past, is something I would not do - do you think that's wrong? I'm truly amazed at the focus all of the illegal immigrants are receiving and have begun wondering why there is not focus from the churches on feeding the American Indians, some not very far from Kansas City. What about that forgotten group of REAL Americans? The degradation of what was great about America continues...morality and integrity are things of the past - look at the US ten years ago with respect to those things and look at it now. What will it be like in another ten years? Look at the attitude toward religion today versus ten years ago. What happened with the Episcopal church? I was baptized and confirmed Episcopal in 1954 and remained in the faith until the they started interpreting things radically and ordained a gay bishop living in an open relationship with another man - and they said it was ok. Huh? Where was the church (any of them) during the scandal in the White House with a former sitting President and a young female aid? Another example of society's acceptance. As new members of COR, we're amazed at the activities, vibrancy, opportunities, and sheer size of the church - and it wants to grow bigger physically and build another sanctuary. But then we stop and ask ourselves - why? What's wrong with the size of the church now? Why does it have to get bigger; surely not to be able to say we're the biggest. Is having a lot of "stuff" or "property" really what being a UM is all about? I digrest; I'm conservative but am open to reasonable and legal change within the confines of morality. I'm just really frustrated with the silence and absence of the church in walking the walk when it comes to issues which are eroding American society. Thanks, Adam; you asked if I would feed someone who was starving regardless of their immigration status - of course I would and I believe all Christians would. However, if I found they were illegal, I would notify the appropriate authorities so that our laws would be enforced. To continue to knowingly violate our laws and harbor illegals, as some churchs have in the past, is something I would not do - do you think that’s wrong? I’m truly amazed at the focus all of the illegal immigrants are receiving and have begun wondering why there is not focus from the churches on feeding the American Indians, some not very far from Kansas City. What about that forgotten group of REAL Americans?

The degradation of what was great about America continues…morality and integrity are things of the past - look at the US ten years ago with respect to those things and look at it now. What will it be like in another ten years? Look at the attitude toward religion today versus ten years ago. What happened with the Episcopal church? I was baptized and confirmed Episcopal in 1954 and remained in the faith until the they started interpreting things radically and ordained a gay bishop living in an open relationship with another man - and they said it was ok. Huh? Where was the church (any of them) during the scandal in the White House with a former sitting President and a young female aid? Another example of society’s acceptance.

As new members of COR, we’re amazed at the activities, vibrancy, opportunities, and sheer size of the church - and it wants to grow bigger physically and build another sanctuary. But then we stop and ask ourselves - why? What’s wrong with the size of the church now? Why does it have to get bigger; surely not to be able to say we’re the biggest. Is having a lot of “stuff” or “property” really what being a UM is all about?

I digrest; I’m conservative but am open to reasonable and legal change within the confines of morality. I’m just really frustrated with the silence and absence of the church in walking the walk when it comes to issues which are eroding American society.

]]> By: Northstar http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-196 Northstar Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:50:22 +0000 http://adamhamilton.cor.org/2008/02/07/liberals-and-conservatives/#comment-196 My thoughts on whether or not to ask the "are you legal" question of a person in need are that laws in America are made for lawbreakers. I don't mean to be short, but I don't think it is our business to decide which laws we will abide by and which ones we will push aside so we can be "helpful". Maybe here in Johnson county an illegal is less likely to be dangerous, maybe not, but in other states closer to the border, where illegals are more likely to be criminal (where landowners' state they can no longer allow their own children to play alone on their personal property), perhaps we should follow the laws that we as citizens have agreed upon for the common good and go ahead an ask that question before we decide who we put at risk. My thoughts on whether or not to ask the “are you legal” question of a person in need are that laws in America are made for lawbreakers. I don’t mean to be short, but I don’t think it is our business to decide which laws we will abide by and which ones we will push aside so we can be “helpful”. Maybe here in Johnson county an illegal is less likely to be dangerous, maybe not, but in other states closer to the border, where illegals are more likely to be criminal (where landowners’ state they can no longer allow their own children to play alone on their personal property), perhaps we should follow the laws that we as citizens have agreed upon for the common good and go ahead an ask that question before we decide who we put at risk.

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